Monero’s home is right now on Matrix. I’m disputing that. This is a video follow-up with some of the replies from last time.
If you are new, XMPP and Matrix are two competing federated end-to-end encrypted messengers. XMPP is far better, on server cost decentralization, speed over Tor, degoogled push notifications, multi-identities, and overall privacy. So if Matrix is inferior centralized bloatware, why is it more popular? Especially among XMR techies, who should in theory understand these concepts.
This brand new video gives a quick overview of the technical reasons that XMPP is the gold standard king of federation. And it briefly discusses how Matrix manages to push it’s agenda: https://video.simplifiedprivacy.com/xmpp-vs-matrix-why-matrix-sucks/
Some critics will say that “Matrix is a complete package, while XMPP is fragmented”. This is essentially propaganda, because all the XMPP clients interact (Dino, Gajim, conversations, monocles). The only one that doesn’t interact is OTR encryption from pidgin which provides an alternative for hardcore cypherpunks who want to destroy the encryption keys when the conversation is done. So because one single client has an alternative use case, the Matrix cheerleaders want us to fill out Google Captcha spyware to register on Matrix.org because it costs so much to self-host.
@ShadowRebel
>OTR encryption from pidgin which provides an alternative for hardcore cypherpunks
cryptoanarchist here we moved on from otr ages ago because the parser is a fucking nightmare@ShadowRebel *multiple* implementations have caused client crashes in the past, and implementing otr is abysmal, havent seen this from omemo
Quite one-sided video. Many things you list as negatives in the Matrix’s column are simply “not the whole truth”. For example: “matrix requires captcha”, “matrix requires email”—these are not true for all the existing homeservers. You may find a homeserver that’s open for registration that doesn’t force you to train google’s machine vision AI nor give up an email.
Another “not the whole truth” is that “dendrite freezes and doesn’t let you join big rooms”. I have been using my own dendrite homeserver for the last 2 years, and while it may be true that I had some “freezes” when I tried to join some software support communities, in the end (after a few minutes) I always managed to join in, and never got locked out of the discussion.
Apart from all of that, xmpp’s multi-device e2ee is also a mess. You make it sound like it is a piece of cake—it ain’t.
@k4r4b3y @ShadowRebel
>after a few minutes
this should honestly never be acceptable for an instant-messaging platform@opal @ShadowRebel I agree. Do the tabulations. List the pros and cons, and see if you want to use matrix dendrite.
@k4r4b3y @ShadowRebel dendrite does not solve this join-delay issue when joining rooms on remote servers, particularly rooms hosted at all on matrix.org (i.e. the DAG involves matrix.org in some way), because the weakest link is the bottleneck in the matrix protocol
The majority of matrix servers do require google & email though, especially when compared to xmpp.
as far as dendrite goes, we’re talking about using Tor & a degoogled phone without google push notifications. can you honestly tell me that matrix is not slower than XMPP here?
As far as xmpp e2ee multi-device, you’re right that it’s not perfect. I agree with your criticism, but it’s BETTER than matrix.
>as far as dendrite goes, we’re talking about using Tor & a degoogled phone without google push notifications.
I have been doing that for years now, kiddo. CalyxOS user of 2 years, here—before that I have used GrapheneOS. Both without microG or any other google play compatibility layers.
I use Element Android with Orbot proxy. It is pretty usable. I get notifications, a-Okay. Nothing to fearmonger about there.
If xmpp is really better than matrix, then you shouldn’t be needing these “half-truth” videos to spread its use.
Anyways. Do what you gotta do.
@k4r4b3y @ShadowRebel Matrix seems to be focusing on the needs of its corporate clients lately. Interesting projects like P2P matrix, low-bandwidth and portable identity are not getting attention. Instead, they are making OIDC mandatory:
https://matrix.org/blog/2023/09/better-auth/
Over time I’ve become less enthusiastic about Matrix. I’m not saying we should ditch it, but it’s good to have a FOSS-oriented alternative (XMPP), just in case.
What pixel are you using? And what is your internet speed without tor/vpn? Cause if you’re in a huge city with 1G and using a brand new pixel 7 then yeah you might be fine. But if you’re in a rural area with a pixel 4, then xmpp may shine
