• MinusPi (she/they)
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    5711 months ago

    Trans people have existed for as long as people have existed.

    • _thisdot
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      -611 months ago

      Intersex yes. I thought trans was a relatively new (20th century, maybe 1930s) thing. What is the earliest recorded transition?

      • @christophski@feddit.uk
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        11 months ago

        Chevalier d’Éon spent the last years of her life recognised by the king as a woman from 1777.

        The term transgender is 20th century, but transgender people have always existed

      • MinusPi (she/they)
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        1411 months ago

        I specifically mean trans people, not intersex people, though they have existed too. There are plenty of ancient cultures with evidence of what we would call trans people today, with some even being revered. Sorry to not give sources, but I’m just not invested enough to go research specifics at the moment.

        • _thisdot
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          411 months ago

          I’m genuinely curious. Would you consider someone like Mulan trans? I’m from India and we have mythological stories of intersex and gods magically transforming to the opposite gender. None technically trans

          • MinusPi (she/they)
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            1211 months ago

            No, Mulan’s “male” side was only ever a disguise, not her actually being a man. She was manly/masculine perhaps, as she did end up being described well by the song “Be a Man”, but ultimately her gender was never truly in question by herself or the audience.

            As for history, this Wikipedia page is an excellent summary.

      • @Didros@beehaw.org
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        711 months ago

        I know there was a Trans man that rode for the Pony Express. We just didn’t call it that and if they were ever found out there us a good chance they would die.

        • _thisdot
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          -511 months ago

          are we stretching the definitions here a little bit? Would we call Mulan trans?

          • @Didros@beehaw.org
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            1011 months ago

            What do you call living your whole life with a binder on, going by your chosen male name, and wishing to die over having a doctor give them a look over?

                • _thisdot
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                  311 months ago

                  I don’t know what the proper term is. I’m sorry. Not trying to be rude or offensive. English isn’t my first language either

                  • @Didros@beehaw.org
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                    511 months ago

                    Understood. They were trans in the modern sense of the word. Ran away from home, took on a man’s name and learned a “man’s” trade to support himself. They didn’t have the word trans back then, but no one other than his wife knew the truth until he died. But the word trans didn’t exist back then. And there was no positive term for it until modern history.

                    Sorry to jump at ya.

      • @juliebean@lemm.ee
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        511 months ago

        the earliest i’m aware of off the top of my head goes back to around 300BCE, but i haven’t exactly done any research to find the earliest example, and i’d expect there are earlier ones. just suffice to say we’ve been around a long time.

      • @s20@lemmy.ml
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        311 months ago

        You’re thinking of being g post-op. Not all trans people have surgery, and it’s not a requirement for being trans.