• darq
      6•9 months ago

      Maybe you should try reading what people are writing instead of falling back on strawmen.

      I do not believe people who cannot read at an adult level are able to access and understand the information and knowledge they need to navigate the world effectively. And that makes them vulnerable.

      That’s not elitism.

      • DessertStorms
        -5•9 months ago

        No, that’s ableism.

        https://www.theodysseyonline.com/functioning-labels-ableist-nonsense

        https://web.archive.org/web/20230605065733/https://ollibean.com/intelligence-is-an-ableist-concept/

        https://disabledfeminists.com/2009/10/23/ableist-word-profile-intelligence/

        https://www.bristolautismsupport.org/ableism

        E: If you’re looking to protect vulnerable people, who will always exist, how about addressing those who take advantage of them, and our ableist (and classist, and racist) societies that enable and even encourages it?

        • darq
          3•9 months ago

          I’m not talking about intelligence or IQ. I didn’t even say “intelligence”.

          I’m talking about access to information.

          Not every single individual needs to be a skilled reader. But people, in general, do need to be able to access information. If significant parts of the population are struggling to read, that’s not a condemnation on them as individuals, but can mean that they are vulnerable to being cut off from information they need to live their best lives, or to impact the world in the way they might desire to.

          • DessertStorms
            -5•9 months ago

            I do not believe people who cannot read at an adult level are able to access and understand the information and knowledge they need to navigate the world effectively.

            That is ableism, plain and simple (you don’t have to say a word for it to be heavily implied, and if you’d read further you would have realised it’s about much more than IQ, but even if we ignore that word, that statement is still ableist). People are able to process information and the world around them in a variety of ways, you not seeing it as effective, or it not being for you, doesn’t mean it isn’t.
            And those who still struggle should be supported where they are, not expected to fit in to the abled (and capitalist) “box” (edit to clarify: people struggle because society is designed to exclude them, not because these arbitrary skills are necessary for survival, except for in a capitalist system which only values “productivity”).

            • darq
              0•9 months ago

              Alright I’m going to admit I chose my words a bit poorly in that quote. Sorry. Because it was not my intention to judge the “effectiveness” of individuals, but rather comment on how populations of people navigate the world.

              Which is what the post was originally about. That huge swaths of US folks are reading at a below-par level. This isn’t about differences in ability or intelligence. If at the population level, literacy is low, that’s about education, or some other influence.

              And if large numbers of people are less able to access information, that’s a problem. That limits those populations.

              People are able to process information and the world around them in a variety of ways, you not seeing it as effective, or it not being for you, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

              While one of my statements was badly worded, now you’re starting to put words in my mouth.

              And those who still struggle should be supported where they are, not expected to fit in to the abled (and capitalist) “box”

              I did not say otherwise, and I would not say otherwise, because I agree.

              people struggle because society is designed to exclude them, not because these arbitrary skills are necessary for survival, except for in a capitalist system which only values “productivity”

              Yes. Two frameworks of disability. The ableist framework locates the “issue” in the disabled person’s body. But that’s arbitrary, and we can easily think of the issue being located in the societal constructs that don’t take into account different people’s abilities, and are thus not fit for purpose.

      • Primarily0617
        -7•9 months ago

        You’re saying that, in your personal judgement, the average US citizen isn’t navigating life as effectively as you deem they should be able to.

        That really sounds like elitism to me.

        • darq
          4•9 months ago

          Looking at the current state of the US… That’s not the point that you might think it is.

          Yes, I think if the average US citizen had better access to information, they might be able to make more positive change to the world around them.

          I think people are capable of more than just existing and being “productive” as defined by today’s capitalist world. So consider that what you call “functioning”, I think people have the potential for more than that, if given the tools. That’s the opposite of elitism.

          That really sounds like elitism to me.

          If you are not even going to try and entertain a conflicting perspective, and just sit there and throw accusations, then you are wasting my time.

          • Primarily0617
            -4•9 months ago

            Now it’s just elitism repackaged as condescension.

            The average person can read the average article just fine, given that the average article is quite literally written specifically so that the average person can read it. A publishing house that only puts out materials in Shakespearean prose is not going to last long.

            I don’t know what “access to information” you’re thinking that the average US adult doesn’t have.

            • darq
              4•9 months ago

              Now it’s just elitism repackaged as condescension.

              Bite me, you utter waste of time.

            • @TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.idEnglish
              2•9 months ago

              This is simply untrue. There is no world in which someone with 6th grade reading comprehension is going to be able to read, absorb and parse a 3000 word article on a complex political or scientific or economic issue, no matter how simple the language used. It’s just not going to happen. Full stop.

              If you want to be a well-informed citizen, you have to be able to read at least at a 12th grade level.

              The last two decades have underscored this.