Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai::Toyota is offering some amazing deals for its hydrogen fuel cell-powered Mirai. That is, if customers can find the hydrogen to power it.
Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai::Toyota is offering some amazing deals for its hydrogen fuel cell-powered Mirai. That is, if customers can find the hydrogen to power it.
Most Hydrogen fuel is still made from natural gas. It’s greenwashing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/climate/hydrogen-fuel-natural-gas-pollution.html
And most electricity is still made from fossil fuels. The point is that it doesn’t have to be, unlike gasoline.
Depends where you live. Plenty of countries with high % of renewables
Yup, I think there is a solid argument BEVs will win in the long run (once battery technology improves … all the downsides of BEVs start disappearing rapidly). However, I haven’t ever liked the argument that “most hydrogen is made from fossil fuels” that’s looking too short term.
There’s loads of studies surrounding that. It isn’t expected to change. This because they’re planning to create hydrogen from gas in such amounts that it’ll not cause too much of a change in the percentage of green hydrogen (which is currently as good as non existant).
Hydrogen is also expensive, so it’s pretty difficult to get a factory (e.g. steel factory) to switch to hydrogen.
We will run out of fossil fuels someday. We can also just ban making hydrogen from fossil fuels and then selling it to car manufacturers. Just like with battery demand … you get the demand increased and research will take off from there to find ways to make it cheaper and faster.
That’s not true, Gasoline doesn’t have to be made from Fossile fuels either. It’s pretty easy to make actually - there are a number of European companies doing it and with the Co2 Taxes, it will be a viable option by 2028.
Gasoline is made from petroleum.
It is certainly synthesisable by some method without using petroleum. But the person you replied to probably meant Power-to-Gas.
However synthetic or not, burning it produces same gases, which are the problem. Cleaner, but not the end solution.
Biogasoline is a thing, although I’m not aware of anyone really pushing it as viable fuel above biodiesel, ethanol, and bioLPG.
We could use wind electricity, instead of stopping the windnturbines when the production gets so high that prices drop…
At some point hopefully we will realize
it is however extremely easy to make from water. Making the switch to green easy and seamless, and it will surely happen if there’s demand.
It might be theoretically easy, but the massive power demands (and loss) make it pretty hard in practice.
And not every car requires a ton of lithium, like it would if everyone wants to go both EV + massive range.
We really need a more nuanced discussion around EV’s.
I see a lot of “gas bad ev good”. While gas IS bad, really bad, we also need to allow into the discussion all the ways ev’s are also bad, not just range, but environmentally.
Hydrogen is really interesting to me
The problem with all these discussions is they ignore that things improve with research. I fully expect we can find a better battery eventually. Supposedly we’re getting close to extending the maximum capacity and the charging time within the next few years. I also fully expect we can improve the economics of hydrogen.
It’s also faster to fill the tank, making it suitable for longer travels. Greenwhashing or not, battery powered is not where its at.
That’s not true. A hydrogen gas station needs to be under a high pressure to be able to fill up just one car. That pressure is gone after 4 or 5 cars. After which it’ll take 45 minutes to build up pressure again.
You’re spreading doubt about EVs while promoting hydrogen while ignoring the known drawbacks of hydrogen.
Simply stated, per mile or km driven it’s significantly cheaper to “fill up” an EV vs hydrogen. That’s due inefficiencies around hydrogen.
Ever heard of pumps? You do realize pump can build up pressure from lower pressure container? Even if the time needed to fill the tank is the same as EV you’d still get higher mileage per joule of energy simply by not having 700kg battery onboard.
Not sure where you got these numbers from but pretty much none of them make sense. I’d love to see some sources on that.
Completely pointless comparison. You are comparing centuries of battery evolution to a technology that started being developed recently. Per whatever price is not comparable. If you want to go that direction, then bicycle is cheapest followed by a public transport and gasoline. This is not a question about price, this is question of finding a solution that’s scalable enough to replace gasoline, and batteries are not that. Lithium is rare enough, batteries weigh a ton and lose performance in the winter. They also take time to charge. Time which you can’t reduce without affecting battery life. Not to mention excess weight wearing down roads faster, wearing down tires. All that affects environment.
To make matters worse, Toyota has released its newest engine which can run on hydrogen, methane and gasoline. Making transition very easy. Sure hydrogen production is expensive at this point, but prices will drop once there’s competition and new greener ways are found to produce it. But change can start happening now. And by the way, am not talking about hydrogen EVs, but hydrogen ICEs.