CNN’s Laura Coates speaks with Steve Wozniak, the co-founder of Apple, about online privacy and Congress’ pending legislation that could lead to a ban of TikTok.
The idea that “it’s ok cause we’d do the same” is ridiculous. There is no comparison: China is an authoritarian government and the parent company is practically an arm of the state. There are legitimate criticisms of American tech companies obviously, but they’re ultimately subject to the market and democratic governments. We shouldn’t be doing any business with authoritarians in the first place, much less inviting them to control a significant social media app in the guise of a legitimate business.
I mean acting like American tech companies aren’t basically an arm of the American intelligence services is a bit ridiculous too. Just cause they also make money and have to compete in the “fair market” doesn’t change that. If anything it makes it worse cause they’ll sell their data to anyone, whether that be America or China. I’m not saying what TikTok does is good, I’m saying all these companies are bad and focusing on one like this because it’s foreign is dumb.
I agree. We do the same and it’s not okay when we do it either. But you can recognise that the world (and the US at large,) needs better privacy laws and regulations regarding user data while also feeling that tik tok is invasive and so closely tied to the CCP that it is actually a dangerous attack vector that has its hooks in the American people. I honestly think the bill is BS. Sure, the CCP is a threat to US national security. And yes, they absolutely are using tik tok to that effect. I fully believe that. But I want user privacy laws. I want protections. I don’t want this kind of invasive app (tik tok, meta, Amazon, google et al) tracking me. And I want the government to do something to allow me to take back control of my data.
IMO the important detail is about the control the country’s government is able to have and use over the company. What things are they sharing with the state? We know the big American social media companies are either forced or choose to comply with sharing data, or the data is used without asking.
I don’t trust Meta, Google, and Microsoft any more than I trust ByteDance (the makers of tik tok), and I don’t want my data to be used by the US, China or anyone else.
I don’t disagree. If you read any of my statements on this topic you’d see that I am not Pro US when it comes to US companies and user data. It’s a crap shoot. Literally every American tech company is supplying the US government with access to their user data, and that’s been in the news for years. Their user data centric business practices and ad aggregation services are how they make money and that’s what I would think is a well known fact except some people even here don’t seem to recognise it. Tik tok is definitely not alone in this.
However, the way that US and China control and access that data is not the same, and further the way the two countries are run, the control they exert over their citizens and the repercussions are different. My statement was not about whether or not you should trust either government or the tech companies of either country more or less.
It was acknowledging that the two countries and their relationships with their citizens is not the same and further that while both are problematic (and I don’t necessarily agree with forcing the sale of Tik tok because I don’t think it will fix the real problem which I believe is user privacy and regulation of that/ rights given to users), tik tok is problematic and China is not safe. China should not be allowed to operate this kind of operation in a foreign sovereign nation and use it as a way to exert outside control over its populace. And yes. No country should be doing that, US included.
If you think this bill is somehow going to make your user data safer? You’re wrong. If you think tik tok is going to just up and leave the US? I seriously doubt that. If you think the US and China are one and the same, you’re wrong. Every single time there is push back against these companies in the US, we gain ground. That cannot ever be said for the Chinese populace in relation to the CCP’s control over the user data of its citizens and they are actively monitoring those citizens (which I wouldn’t claim the US is doing whole hog). If people in China try to push back against the monitoring the CCP disappears them and their families. Jack Ma? Made some anti-CCP comments and disappeared for like a year. What billionaire in the US is just missing for a year after making anti-government comments?
And unless you have some data to back up that the US is actively monitoring every single one of its citizens user data (yeah I know about the silly NSA data base and the laws and protocols enacted after 9/11, I’m talking new and relevant data) to back up any claims that China and the US access, or treat user data the same, don’t bother responding.
I literally see post about the Genocide all the time and not just on Lemmy. So is the government censoring that? Is it?
You’re talking about genocide right now? Government came and got you, did it?
Seriously, nothing is stopping people from talking about it, sharing information, or providing claims it’s happening or proof. If you’re suggesting platforms are taking that info off their servers, I am just gonna say that social media is awash with videos, articles, and claims. Those platforms may remove data that violates their EULA, or would leave them open to litigation which makes sense. You wouldn’t make the claim that they’re censoring the war on Ukraine. But violent video of first hand accounts have absolutely been removed from social media. The same happened in Yemen, Iran, and half a dozen other war torn countries including several African countries.
I don’t agree with the US providing weapons or support to Israel. I don’t disagree that genocide is happening in Gaza. I am not Pro Israel. I absolutely believe that Israel is actively violating the Geneva convention and committing crimes against noncombatants and people who have nothing to do with any terrorist activity.
But I also agree that Hamas is a terrorist group. And unfortunately that’s just how any group of anti-government freedom fighters who attack their governments are labelled. It’s been this way throughout history. The American side of the revolutionary war? They were terrorists. The victors write the history books everywhere.
And hiding in schools, places of worship, and hospitals and getting innocent people killed because those are losses you’re willing to allow? That’s terrorist behaviour. What is happening is absolutely unconscionable. From both sides. Hamas has its fair share of atrocities. To them, that’s the price of freedom.
The idea that “it’s ok cause we’d do the same” is ridiculous. There is no comparison: China is an authoritarian government and the parent company is practically an arm of the state. There are legitimate criticisms of American tech companies obviously, but they’re ultimately subject to the market and democratic governments. We shouldn’t be doing any business with authoritarians in the first place, much less inviting them to control a significant social media app in the guise of a legitimate business.
I mean acting like American tech companies aren’t basically an arm of the American intelligence services is a bit ridiculous too. Just cause they also make money and have to compete in the “fair market” doesn’t change that. If anything it makes it worse cause they’ll sell their data to anyone, whether that be America or China. I’m not saying what TikTok does is good, I’m saying all these companies are bad and focusing on one like this because it’s foreign is dumb.
I agree. We do the same and it’s not okay when we do it either. But you can recognise that the world (and the US at large,) needs better privacy laws and regulations regarding user data while also feeling that tik tok is invasive and so closely tied to the CCP that it is actually a dangerous attack vector that has its hooks in the American people. I honestly think the bill is BS. Sure, the CCP is a threat to US national security. And yes, they absolutely are using tik tok to that effect. I fully believe that. But I want user privacy laws. I want protections. I don’t want this kind of invasive app (tik tok, meta, Amazon, google et al) tracking me. And I want the government to do something to allow me to take back control of my data.
America is an authoritarian government as well what’s your point
Not on a comparable level with China, Iran, or Russia. This isn’t a fair comparison. Which makes this comment somewhat disengenuous.
IMO the important detail is about the control the country’s government is able to have and use over the company. What things are they sharing with the state? We know the big American social media companies are either forced or choose to comply with sharing data, or the data is used without asking. I don’t trust Meta, Google, and Microsoft any more than I trust ByteDance (the makers of tik tok), and I don’t want my data to be used by the US, China or anyone else.
I don’t disagree. If you read any of my statements on this topic you’d see that I am not Pro US when it comes to US companies and user data. It’s a crap shoot. Literally every American tech company is supplying the US government with access to their user data, and that’s been in the news for years. Their user data centric business practices and ad aggregation services are how they make money and that’s what I would think is a well known fact except some people even here don’t seem to recognise it. Tik tok is definitely not alone in this.
However, the way that US and China control and access that data is not the same, and further the way the two countries are run, the control they exert over their citizens and the repercussions are different. My statement was not about whether or not you should trust either government or the tech companies of either country more or less.
It was acknowledging that the two countries and their relationships with their citizens is not the same and further that while both are problematic (and I don’t necessarily agree with forcing the sale of Tik tok because I don’t think it will fix the real problem which I believe is user privacy and regulation of that/ rights given to users), tik tok is problematic and China is not safe. China should not be allowed to operate this kind of operation in a foreign sovereign nation and use it as a way to exert outside control over its populace. And yes. No country should be doing that, US included.
If you think this bill is somehow going to make your user data safer? You’re wrong. If you think tik tok is going to just up and leave the US? I seriously doubt that. If you think the US and China are one and the same, you’re wrong. Every single time there is push back against these companies in the US, we gain ground. That cannot ever be said for the Chinese populace in relation to the CCP’s control over the user data of its citizens and they are actively monitoring those citizens (which I wouldn’t claim the US is doing whole hog). If people in China try to push back against the monitoring the CCP disappears them and their families. Jack Ma? Made some anti-CCP comments and disappeared for like a year. What billionaire in the US is just missing for a year after making anti-government comments?
And unless you have some data to back up that the US is actively monitoring every single one of its citizens user data (yeah I know about the silly NSA data base and the laws and protocols enacted after 9/11, I’m talking new and relevant data) to back up any claims that China and the US access, or treat user data the same, don’t bother responding.
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At this point America is censoring a Genocide which puts them exactly where China and Iran are.
And the WMD’s in Iraq of course which killed millions of Iraqis and turned out to be a complete lie.
The only difference is that you believe there’s a difference.
I literally see post about the Genocide all the time and not just on Lemmy. So is the government censoring that? Is it?
You’re talking about genocide right now? Government came and got you, did it?
Seriously, nothing is stopping people from talking about it, sharing information, or providing claims it’s happening or proof. If you’re suggesting platforms are taking that info off their servers, I am just gonna say that social media is awash with videos, articles, and claims. Those platforms may remove data that violates their EULA, or would leave them open to litigation which makes sense. You wouldn’t make the claim that they’re censoring the war on Ukraine. But violent video of first hand accounts have absolutely been removed from social media. The same happened in Yemen, Iran, and half a dozen other war torn countries including several African countries.
I don’t agree with the US providing weapons or support to Israel. I don’t disagree that genocide is happening in Gaza. I am not Pro Israel. I absolutely believe that Israel is actively violating the Geneva convention and committing crimes against noncombatants and people who have nothing to do with any terrorist activity.
But I also agree that Hamas is a terrorist group. And unfortunately that’s just how any group of anti-government freedom fighters who attack their governments are labelled. It’s been this way throughout history. The American side of the revolutionary war? They were terrorists. The victors write the history books everywhere.
And hiding in schools, places of worship, and hospitals and getting innocent people killed because those are losses you’re willing to allow? That’s terrorist behaviour. What is happening is absolutely unconscionable. From both sides. Hamas has its fair share of atrocities. To them, that’s the price of freedom.