Hey all,

So I’m looking to take an active step here to understand better some things that my straight/white/cis/middle-aged male brain has had a tough time wrapping itself around, particularly in the gender identity front.

I’m working from the understanding of physical sex as the bio-bits and the expressed identity as being separate things, so that part is easy enough.

What’s confusing to me though is like this. If we take gender as being an expression of your persona, a set of traits that define one as male, female, or some combination of both then what function does a title/pronoun serve? To assume that some things are masculine or feminine traits seems to put unneeded rigidity to things.

We’ve had men or women who enjoy things traditionally associated with the other gender for as long as there have been people I expect. If that’s the case then what purpose does the need for a gender title serve?

I’ll admit personally questioning some things like fairness in cis/trans integrated sports, but that’s outside what I’m asking here. Some things like bathroom laws are just society needing to get over itself in thinking our personal parts are all that special.

Certainly not trying to stir up any fights, just trying to get some input from people that have a different life experience than myself. Is it really as simple as a preferred title?

Edit: Just wanted to take a second to thank all the people here who took the time to write some truly extensive thoughts and explanations, even getting into some full on citation-laden studies into neurology that’ll give me plenty to digest. You all have shown a great deal of patience with me updating some thinking from the bio/social teachings of 20+ years back. 🙂

  • knightly the Sneptaur
    4·
    8 months ago

    That’d be a “neopronoun”, typically used by folks who feel like none of the standard pronouns fit them.

    They’re rather uncommon for the reasons you’ve described, even I have trouble remembering to always use xie/xir or fae/faer for my queer friends that identify as such.

    Fortunately, the folks that do use neopronouns are aware of this and most are quite patient about it. So long as you show your friend and their husband that you’re making an effort to recognize thier unusual gender, such as by quickly correcting yourself and moving on if you catch yourself using the wrong pronoun, then they won’t think any less of you for it. 😄

    • Pistcow@lemm.ee
      1·
      8 months ago

      I mean, I’m comfortable with using what you describe as neopronouns for people asking to use fae, Xi, and others, but I have a problem butchering established grammar. Her husband doesn’t own or possess me. I’ll use “husband” as that’s an identifier my friend used or the name “Alex” they chose but to make it a point, I have to use “their” is a bit much.

      • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
        5·
        8 months ago

        Edit: I’m leaving my comment below for posterity and in case others are confused, but it actually isn’t what the above is about. See jarfil’s reply to this for context.

        The use of “they/them/their” in the singular is a long established part of the English language. It’s not new, and you’re not butchering anything by using it. People who claim otherwise may either be poorly informed or intentionally being malicious. Hope this helps!

            • apotheotic (she/her)@beehaw.orgEnglish
              2·
              8 months ago

              If that’s the case, I apologise. So, the person is asking you to say like…

              “Alex had an appointment today. Their said it went well”?

              As opposed to “Alex had their appointment today”?

            • -Emma-@fedia.io
              1·
              8 months ago

              Oh wow, I thought you had made a typo in your other comments.

              My friend would want me to say something like, “Do you and Their want to go out later?” when referring to her trans husband, I’m the asshole if I say, “Do you and Alex want to go out later?”

              Yes, your friend is unreasonable.

              Even if “Their” were replaced with they/she/he, I think the second option is still better. And if you didn’t want to say the person’s name, you could use “y’all” instead. I like saying “you guys”, but some people don’t like that phrase.

      • knightly the Sneptaur
        3·
        8 months ago

        The singular “they” is actually a couple hundred years older than using “you” instead of “thou” as a second person pronoun.

        I’m sorry to say that your English teachers were pulling a fast one on you when they told you “they/them/their” couldn’t be singular.