No, but I also recognize that I may be wrong. To be honest, arrogant atheists bother me even more than arrogant theists.
To me, the whole point is that any answer is impossible to prove. Trying to definitively, factually state that no kind of higher power exists is irrational, and thoroughly undermines any claim of logic or reason. The stubborn, uncompromising kind of atheist frequently describes themselves as a logical, rational person, so I expect them to see this problem.
That the existence of any supernatural force is unprovable is exactly the problem. I consider myself an agnostic atheist as well, because it’s the only rational position you could have, but there’s a reason the term “god of the gaps” exists. The supernatural will never be found because anything legitimately found is, by definition, not supernatural.
Not really.
I like witchy stuff but only if its considerable to placebos. A rose quartz bracelet, for example, might not be scientifically going to attract love and good fortune—but its cute and makes me happy, so who knows, THAT might help.
If I had to choose a religion though, I’d probably go with one of those polytheist religions because ever since I was a kid and first went to a church camp, I decided that a singular “God” scares the shit out of me. I basically considered “God” too overpowered and decided that wasn’t for me.
Big up for happiness having a positive effect on your life.
Absolutely not.
No. It took me a lot of hard effort to get here with my upbringing. I think parts of it are fine and for the most part regular people practice in ways that aren’t harmful to others, but (at least in the US), the entire structure of it is deeply harmful and results in good, decent folk taking actions or supporting others who do real harm.
Nuh uh. “Losing My Religion” by R.E.M. still feels surreal and sad for my heart.
I was raised particularly southern, like three denomination deep Protestant, (that only existed because some people argued if you should speak in tongues in church or if that would be “distracting from the lawd”.) And my family participated in the activities so I was forced to attend EVERY SUNDAY AND WEDNESDAY NIGHT until I was 18.
I don’t have a lot of good things to say about it. After I realized I only tried to follow it cause of where I was born (and what measure of truth is that?) I started to address each moral question as it came and settle it myself based off of morality I could stomach.
A lack of belief is easy when I’ve seen nothing to believe, in fact I used to feel alone in it. Eventually I realized I cannot fake it, and what reason would there be, what diety would accept it?
Every religious community organisation that I have had first hand personal experience with has been involved in a myriad of verified claims of abuse Including: sexual, financial, and elder. My confidence in these institutions is now nonexistent. And I find myself misidentifying with them completely. I think I am now de facto apathetically agnostic.
I am atheist but I do enjoy religious spaces. There’s a stillness that I like, gives you the opportunity to just be in the moment. You don’t get many spaces like that for atheist folk (libraries are the closest I can think of). I sing a lot of choral music so often find myself in churches. I like the structure of a service and the ceremonial aspect, I just don’t believe in the content itself.
definitely relate to this. i attend church regularly despite not being religious because my family is, and though i don’t believe in the christian god at least, i do appreciate and like the environment, community, and lessons being taught. it’s very peaceful and makes you feel like you’re part of something a bit bigger, even if that’s likely just because there’s a few hundred people at any given service.
It’s complicated. I am not religious, and have considered myself to be an atheist for most of my life so far. I also have strong negative feelings towards most mainstream religions, because of their long-standing hate towards people like me and my loved ones. I also grew up in a Presbyterian church and honestly, fuck everything about calvinist-derived theology.
But, it is hard to shake some amount of magical thinking. And honestly, if it brings joy, and isn’t harming people around you, why not? So lately I’ve been leaning into it a bit, in a vaguely neopagan direction. I definitely don’t take any of it literally, but if a sprinkle of it helps keep me from descending into despondency, I will shrug and go with it. It isn’t rational, but I am a human, not a robot.
I have also considered finding a local unitarian universalist church or something along those lines. Somewhere that is chill with me as I am. The last few years have been isolating and I think I need more community in my life to thrive.
Yes, I’m Christian. I am also queer and staunchly opposed to American bible fascism. An unfortunate number of people seem to believe that these traits can’t coexist in one person without hypocrisy or denial.
Myself, I enjoy how my religious beliefs and my queer identity support and bolster one another. 😁
love to see queer christian’s here! so many people, especially LGBT folks (understandably to some degree) harbour so much hate for christianity as a whole, when in my opinion it’s crazy to generalize everyone in an entire religion as “bad people.”
may i ask what denomination you follow, if it’s a specific one?
I’m bisexual, but left the church after attending seminary.
So maybe I kinda count? heh.
I’m not part of a specific denomination atm, having come from a vaguely evangelical background*, and my childhood religious education was woefully lacking in explanation of the different denominations and schisms. I want to try attending a variety of affirming, universalist churches to broaden my experience and figure out where I belong. I’ve heard good things online about Episcopal churches but I’ve never attended one.
*My parents were a Catholic/Protestant couple and made some odd decisions, like explicitly telling me we were attending such and such church but we’re not members of it, but then never really educating me in any other denomination’s teachings.
me too! im catholic and lesbian (maybe nonbinary too??)
I’m a Christian. I’m in a weird state where i’m trying to figure out where my faith sits and trying to find a new congregation I am comfortable with, since there’s so much bad stuff coming from Christians nowadays.
We ended up in a reconciling UMC congregation, which is a big change from the fundie stuff we grew up with. Our congregation has been protested by evangelicals so I think it is doing something right.
I’ve been looking at UMC, presbyterian, and UCOC since some are LGBT affirming and that’s really the big thing I look for (or at least a clear statement that they aren’t discriminatory about gay/bi and trans people). I am trying to dip my toes in, but it’s very different from what I grew up in, with robes and organs and what not. It’s definitely a journey!
I grew up conservative evangelical (like I was a missionary on three continents) and ended up in very progressive and flamboyantly affirming UMC church. I’m agnostic to the existence of an afterlife and believe in God probably 51% of the time. I decided I would only go to a church that I would still be ok with being around those people the 49% of the time I think it’s BS.
UMC congregation has fit the bill. Fully embracing LGBT+ community and accepted science, psychology, etc. Extremely diligent in protecting vulnerable people and children from abuse. They view the Bible as a complicated book of people writing about God, not the inerrant word of God. The purpose is self improvement and community care with Jesus as the example.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer… sets up power point
My history with religion/spirituality is all over the place.
Those of the more religious bent in my family were/are Baptists. My single working mother never made religion a super big focus for me and sis. She let us discover that part of ourselves on our own. I had issues with Southern Baptists early on as a child when one pastor pressured me about getting baptized. I kinda just ran from organized religion after that.
As I grew up, I had explored Catholicism. What I discovered was I really was drawn to the divine feminine. I was aaalll about some Mary. I flirted with Wicca, Norse Paganism, Pagan Paganism, and finally settled in as an agnostic. “Nobody knows ANYTHING”, I figured.
Then, about a year and a half ago, a fella I followed on instagram was streaming his DJ program on Twitch. One of the tunes he spun was Ganesh is Fresh by MC Yogi. It was a bangin’ tune! Then I remembered a Hindu mantra I had heard in a new age book store when I was a teen. It left such an impression on me that it just kind of stayed in the back of my mind. I took a chance, and looked it up on YouTube. Sure enough! There it was! Then I looked up the meaning: “A mantra of purification and seeking the oneness of God in all things”
I just sat there listening to my mantra with “new ears”. Then I said “Okay. I’m on board. Let’s do this.” I embraced Hinduism, and honestly couldn’t be happier. As I read and researched more about it, it really fit with my outlook on life, the universe, and everything. It’s a seeking path that doesn’t have rigid dogma. It acknowledges change, and encourages exploration and questioning. I’ve had to learn to drop a lot of the Western Abrahamic thinking that came along with American culture, which seemed small and kinda dark in comparison.
These days I find chanting, meditation, and kirtan to be great sources of comfort in a world gone higgledy-piggledy. I do my best to make my corner of the universe as kind and welcoming as I can. I refuse to hate, and don’t wish ill on others. There’s just better ways to spend my energy.
i’ve always been interested in learning about different religions when possible, but sometimes have difficulty knowing where to look. hinduism is one i’ve vaguely had in the back of my mind as something to look into for awhile- do you have any suggestions on books/websites/videos to look into to learn more about it? :)
Oh, man. Where to begin…
The major difference between The Abrahamic faiths and Hinduism is this: The Abrahamics have a book. Hinduism has a library.
The first book to check out would be the Bhagavad Gita as translated by Eknath Easwaran. The audio version is here on YT.. The Gita is the essentials of Hinduism and especially helpful for anyone exploring consciousness and awareness.
Then there are the Upanishads, the Vedas, the Puranas (all 18 volumes), The Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna… Don’t be overwhelmed, though. Take your time. If you have one in your area, visit a Hindu temple. There a LOTS of YT videos. The Hindu American Foundation is also a good resource.
Hinduism is big. Enjoy the journey.
thank you so much!! this is a lot more than i’d anticipated, and i appreciate it a ton :) i’m not sure exactly what i believe in right now (probably something along the lines of agnostic), but i’d really love to be invested in some kind of spiritual or religious practice, it’s just been difficult to really find anything that resonates yet. even if hinduism isn’t something i’ll end up clicking with, i’m excited to start learning! thanks again :)
I hate religion. I hate ““spirituality”” (what does that even mean?). It makes my skin crawl. I hate that people willfully delude themselves into believing things that they clearly know to not be true, on some level, and then argue wholeheartedly for their actual truthfulness. It’s the most nonsensical practice I can imagine someone engaging in and I struggle to see people who do so as willful, rational human beings. Just look at all the people in this thread searching for one that "speaks to them as if they can just pick the nature of reality out for themselves. How in the world can people do that and not make themselves crazy with cognitive dissonance?
BUT. What I do understand is that people are searching for structure, community and a sense of reverence towards… something. There have been attempts at replicating that experience sans-nonsense, but every time it’s tried it’s mostly ridiculed and laughed at by the sort of jackass atheists who can’t even empathize with that longing. It’s sad.
spirituality, as i understand it, tends to be more mindful/spiritual practices minus any typically associated religious aspects. for example, meditating and yoga would be typical examples of this, but i think spirituality can also be watching the sun rise/set, going for a walk in the woods, or taking a hot bath. anything that can help bring you to a more peaceful place of self reflection and introspection could be considered spiritual in my opinion.
how can you say that you hate that while not even knowing what it is?
I do all of those things. I choose not to call them spiritual because to a lot of people, spirituality implies a belief in the supernatural, spirits, some nonsense about vibrations, etc.
What you’re describing is just self-care and self-administrated mental health practices.i don’t really think you get to label others’ experiences ;) imo these experiences tend to feel different to me- more checking in with my physical, mental, and emotional health, as well as feeling connected to the earth and environment around me. that’s what makes them spiritual to me personally- they just feel like more than a regular walk in the woods or hot bath. it’s like i’m connecting with something deeper inside myself and in the world itself.
Well, yes, they’re certainly more than a regular walk in the woods or a bath, which is why I said self-administered mental health practices. Meditation be like that. Still no spirits involved, which is what the word spiritual implies.
i feel like the spirit involved is my own, hence why i would consider it spirituality. but it doesn’t look like this is going anywhere though, so i hope you have a lovely day :)
I’m very curious to hear about the attempts you’re referencing in your second paragraph!
Sorry I didn’t get to this comment earlier!
The broadest answers to that question are Humanism and Scientific Pantheism, which I’m partial to. That’s what a lot of atheists have made a whole lot of fun of.
Of course humanism is still sort of opposed to what I’m talking about in thr second paragraph, or at least most humanists would be, as far as I’m aware. And most “earth religions” fall under some form of what I’d call spirituality.
In the U.S., at least, I’ve started attending my very local Unitarian Universalist church and I think they’re your best actual practical bet. As much as I whine about most religion, I deeply respect the UU’s commitment to include everyone, atheists included, and so I do my best to respect what people believe and what they want to talk about (which naturally doesn’t usually involve trying to convert people). Third spaces are too important to keep people out because of some sense of sectarianism.
And, of course, Buddhism is at it’s heart a very skeptical religion to the point that some interpret more as a philosophy, which is how I choose to see it, and it’s a philosophy and a practice that modern psychology owes a whole lot to (and should probably yank even more from). It’s literally just a framework of how to stop “suffering” and live a good life regardless of whether it seems like a good life externally. I do mostly stick to more secularized, almost new-age interpretations of it, I love the blog Deconstructing Yourself for being thoroughly dedicated to “Nondualism” while rejecting the schizo craziness it usually brings with it. But I like to learn from something closer to primary sources, too…
For which I’m relying on the Buddhist University. Of the two “original” explicitly supernatural elements of Buddhism, reincarnation was an assumption of the culture the Buddha was born into, and with that stripped away, Karma as cause and effect is just determinism without any “you’re screwed because your past self screwed up”. The second chapter of What the Buddha Taught (which is a great book) practically made me a Buddhist by illuminating just how dedicated the Buddha was to making sure people actually remained skeptical of him, only searching for what they could personally prove not really caring whether something was his idea or anyone else’s. This is a quote (supposedly from him, not that it matters) that sums it up:
Yes, Kālāmas, it is proper that you have doubt, that you have perplexity, for a doubt has arisen in a matter which is doubtful. Now, look you Kālāmas, do not be led by reports, or tradition, or hearsay. Be not led by the authority of religious texts, nor by mere logic or inference, nor by considering appearances, nor the delight in speculative opinions, nor by seeming possibilities, nor by the idea: “this is our teacher”. But, O Kālāmas, when you know for yourselves that certain things are unwholesome, and wrong, and bad, then give them up… And when you know for yourselves that certain things are wholesome and good, then accept them and follow them.
There’s also a story about him telling off one of his followers for insisting that he reveal the “mysteries of the universe”. He was pretty much like look, you’re being a dumbass, that’s won’t help you live well, that’s not important." I can respect that.
In any organised sense, no, not really. Beyond that, maybe?
But no more than feeling a sense of belonging within the universe which we are a part of and connection with other parts of that universe, be they human, animal, plant or other.
If there is something else out there or on a higher plane of existence than us, I don’t believe it is within the grasp of any human to understand it, let alone write down it’s wants and desires in regards to the way we should live out lives.
Yes, very much. I think it would be impossible for me not to be religious. If I wasn’t Anglican I’d be Buddhist or Baháʼí.
Not even a little bit. I’m still in awe of the universe, aware of my own insignificance, and terrified yet resigned to my eventual death though!
