I have some experience and no formal training. If I dove into cobol classes and certs would that alone be enough for potential employers? Not in a get rich quick kind of way, but more of a ‘what’s the fastest way I can become attractive to employers without having to go back for a degree cause my current career is falling apart and I need to transition to something that isn’t actively injuring my body.” Kind of way…
i have a mainframe (the type of computer that runs COBOL) IT job after four years of school majoring in CS and minoring in mainframes. my most recently hired coworker got the same job with no college and an aprenticeship program. if i could do it all over again, that’s the route i would take in a heartbeat
yeah, at least where i am the cowboy days are long over. we have a modern change control system on the box that ties into our company’s broader service management system, and methodologies like agile are used (and misused) just like in the newer departments. the software and hardware are also constantly being updated by IBM and keeping up with them and other vendors is a full time job all on it’s own- really the only things ancient about it are the oldest parts of our own codebase and the terminal interface. we actually have a product that lets us bypass the terminal now and do everything in eclipse but the old timers don’t use it because the terminal is easier for them and then the newbies don’t use it because any time the oldbies teach them how to do something, it’s on the terminal emulator lmao
if you have an edu email, IBM also does a “master the mainframe” program every fall that takes you from zero experience to developing a full application, which is a great way to learn the whole stack
COBOL is not hard to learn. But it takes years to develop the muscles in your fingers to the point where you can write a subroutine in a single session.
I took courses in uni for COBOL and you’re right, the language itself isn’t difficult, it’s honestly a lot like writing plain Englisch but making sure your JCL was correct, checking I think it was the spool in order to make sure your jobs were working correctly, reading memory dumps, it was a ride. I love mainframe but it feels like all jobs mainframe ask for 5+ years experience
TL;DR: it’s probably not that hard to pick up compared to the complex and deep stacks we use today. Someone will give it a shot.
COBOL is in a special place in our computing legacy. It’s too new to require intimate knowledge of the electronics that drive it (older systems and machine-code did), and is too old to be all that complicated (target machines were much smaller and slower). I would wager it’s actually not that hard to learn, and is probably a dream to code with modern equipment. You won’t be slowed down by punchcards, tape drives, time sharing, etc., and can probably use VSCode and an emulator to cover a ton of ground. The computing model is likely a straight line (storage -> compute -> storage), with little to no UI. In other words: simple by today’s standards.
Fr tho what happens when all the COBOL programmers die off?
Uh, how do you think learning programming languages works exactly?
Maybe we can extract COBOL programmer DNA from a prehistoric mosquito that got stuck in amber, and then combine it with frog DNA to produce a new generation of COBOL programmers? We could build a facility for this on some remote island, maybe call it COBOL Park or something?
People think there’s job security in this, but there’s really not. I have been called in to replace archaic code with more modern/easier to read code.
It pays very well.
And there have been companies that are paying millions to a small firm to rewrite their COBOL software that covers the same feature set but also opens the door to extendability.
It really depends on management. Some companies don’t mind paying IBM for new mainframes just to avoid any risks touching it, others are desperate to “break the monolith” and migrate from COBOL to something modern… like Java8. You win some, you lose some.
Fr tho what happens when all the COBOL programmers die off?
Like all old systems, do nothing and pray it doesn’t shit itself.
It’s too lucrative to die completely, somebody will always be there to take it up.
I have some experience and no formal training. If I dove into cobol classes and certs would that alone be enough for potential employers? Not in a get rich quick kind of way, but more of a ‘what’s the fastest way I can become attractive to employers without having to go back for a degree cause my current career is falling apart and I need to transition to something that isn’t actively injuring my body.” Kind of way…
i have a mainframe (the type of computer that runs COBOL) IT job after four years of school majoring in CS and minoring in mainframes. my most recently hired coworker got the same job with no college and an aprenticeship program. if i could do it all over again, that’s the route i would take in a heartbeat
Amazing. Are there lots of modern standards, modern best practices for how to use the ancient tech?
yeah, at least where i am the cowboy days are long over. we have a modern change control system on the box that ties into our company’s broader service management system, and methodologies like agile are used (and misused) just like in the newer departments. the software and hardware are also constantly being updated by IBM and keeping up with them and other vendors is a full time job all on it’s own- really the only things ancient about it are the oldest parts of our own codebase and the terminal interface. we actually have a product that lets us bypass the terminal now and do everything in eclipse but the old timers don’t use it because the terminal is easier for them and then the newbies don’t use it because any time the oldbies teach them how to do something, it’s on the terminal emulator lmao
Thank you for this! Any pointers from your coworker on apprenticeship programs?
i THINK he went through these guys but i’ll double check tomorrow and let you know if i was wrong https://www.franklinapprenticeships.com/
if you have an edu email, IBM also does a “master the mainframe” program every fall that takes you from zero experience to developing a full application, which is a great way to learn the whole stack
I wonder why they require an edu email? Probably some tax reason. Then I wonder how hard it is to get a cheap or free edu email.
Supply and demand.
Somebody has to RTFM :(
They are alive, we employ some
New folks are learning it. Obviously not in droves, and obviously there is a lot of legacy knowledge, but new people are def training on it.
COBOL is not hard to learn. But it takes years to develop the muscles in your fingers to the point where you can write a subroutine in a single session.
I took courses in uni for COBOL and you’re right, the language itself isn’t difficult, it’s honestly a lot like writing plain Englisch but making sure your JCL was correct, checking I think it was the spool in order to make sure your jobs were working correctly, reading memory dumps, it was a ride. I love mainframe but it feels like all jobs mainframe ask for 5+ years experience
TL;DR: it’s probably not that hard to pick up compared to the complex and deep stacks we use today. Someone will give it a shot.
COBOL is in a special place in our computing legacy. It’s too new to require intimate knowledge of the electronics that drive it (older systems and machine-code did), and is too old to be all that complicated (target machines were much smaller and slower). I would wager it’s actually not that hard to learn, and is probably a dream to code with modern equipment. You won’t be slowed down by punchcards, tape drives, time sharing, etc., and can probably use VSCode and an emulator to cover a ton of ground. The computing model is likely a straight line (storage -> compute -> storage), with little to no UI. In other words: simple by today’s standards.
The last update in the standard is from 2023 and includes OOP.
If you are new it’s probably easy. If you have some experience the roughness of it will drive you mad.
Thanks so much for this reply!
Uh, how do you think learning programming languages works exactly?
Maybe we can extract COBOL programmer DNA from a prehistoric mosquito that got stuck in amber, and then combine it with frog DNA to produce a new generation of COBOL programmers? We could build a facility for this on some remote island, maybe call it COBOL Park or something?
People think there’s job security in this, but there’s really not. I have been called in to replace archaic code with more modern/easier to read code.
It pays very well.
And there have been companies that are paying millions to a small firm to rewrite their COBOL software that covers the same feature set but also opens the door to extendability.
It really depends on management. Some companies don’t mind paying IBM for new mainframes just to avoid any risks touching it, others are desperate to “break the monolith” and migrate from COBOL to something modern… like Java8. You win some, you lose some.
Niche skills will demand higher salaries. Thus you’ll still get a few that learn it just to enter the niche.
They will unfreeze my head 1000 years from now like Futurama.
Upon waking, scientists will welcome me to the future world…
… Then ask if I wouldn’t mind making a change to a COBOL app still in use by the gov.