Left-leaning voters online have rallied around Kamala Harris this week, and many are increasingly critical of those who have said they’ll withhold their vote.
Real leftists understand the principles of harm reduction. Voting for Harris, as voting for Biden would have done, has the outcome of reducing harm compared to trump winning. Sure, there will still be harm, but it’ll be less, and that’s incredibly important. It’s basically the same foundation behind how we need to help drug addiction. Although Harris will likely cause even less harm than Biden.
Chances are that the “leftists” arguing for the purity test of Harris are people who aren’t truly at risk in this election. They won’t have their basic human rights torn apart if trump wins. They’re leftists in name only.
It honestly feels that they are more like Foreign Agents seeking to cause harm to other countries than real “Leftists”. I used to consider myself Far Left until I ran into rabid Marxist-Lenonist Leftists (see Lemmy.ML) and how ‘left’ I was was put into perspective.
Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps you are more left than they are? They will ban you from their communities for Horseshoe Theory should you mention this. But when it comes to authoritarian ideology as ml is. Though they’ll swear up and down it’s not despite every time it’s ever been implemented it’s always been authoritarian. Much the same as economic liberalism . But authoritarians are always authoritarian first. Anything resembling left or right is a passing thought at best.
Remember a lot of Rednecks volunteered in Catalonia back in the Spanish civil war, and came back fucking hating fascists and so called communists. I heard quite a few old bastards refer to the Soviets as “backstabbing pseudofascists” because the Soviets in Republican Spain were purging anyone who didnt adore the Soviets. Though not a Redneck George Orwell had a lot to say about that shit since he also saw it.
I haven’t just considered it, I know for a fact that I’m farther left than an edgelord who thinks being “left” involves assuming the moniker of an actual historical freedom fighter as if to appropriate their struggles from the comfort of an air conditioned computer chair.
A person who is against the lies on .ml is indeed more leftist than most everyone on .ml.
They praise “socialist” countries that are actually state capitalist and producing hundreds of billionaires. It is very clear and overt that their priorities are nominally left authoritarianism over leftist economics.
Yes there does need to be a revolution and solidarity among the proletariat. But authority no matter how good intentioned left to stand. Always seeks to justify their existence even through destructive means.
It was one of the things that the founding fathers of the United States for all their flaws understood fairly well. That was quickly forgotten and ignored once they had passed.
On, the, nose. There’s a few I’m pretty sure aren’t American. Not a Russian or bot accusation. And another decent contingent from States and areas so safely blue that they’re just out of touch. And don’t care about the possible damage they do. Choosing to virtue signal over trying to appeal to other people.
This is an important point - it must be really nice to be in a position where neither you nor any of your loved ones would be at risk with another Trump presidency.
I mean, I mostly agree, but damn the ultra-left marginalized white non-binary anti-Harris idiots who don’t care that Trump would be worse for Gaza than literally any other person on the planet are real.
Oh and also the libertarians (always white, middle class ones) who think anyone who insists on strategically voting is a “brainwashed sheep”.
Not to mention the basic principle of democracy: political parties have a tendency to gravitate towards where the votes are.
The Democratic party isn’t a static thing. They will move further left if it gets them more votes. They move right if that gets them more votes. If the Democrats go further right, it’s not to spite leftists screaming on the internet. It’s because leftists aren’t voting and screaming on the internet is meaningless.
Leftists that aren’t voting are leftist that don’t actually want any leftist policies implemented. They just want to complain about policies not being implemented while doing nothing to make it happen. If they actually believe in the changes they say they want they’d be willing to vote in as many elections as necessary to see it happen. Over the course of decades id necessary. Voting in zero elections shows very dedication for what they claim to be important.
The thing you were arguing about is that they will not move left even if it gets them more votes. You referenced 2016. It looks like they went towards the more votes even in 2016, no?
You now wish to change your argument. “If Dems had ignored the more votes and gone further left, it would have won the election,” am I reading that correctly?
I also preferred Sanders. But I don’t see how you can logically hold both those positions.
The party saw that Obama was popular when he was to Clinton’s left. They moved right anyway. They lost. Yes, Clinton got more votes than Trump. They still moved to the right after it was demonstrated that moving left excited voters.
They move right no matter what and make up excuses after the fact. At least until last week. And just look at how excited Democrats finally are. The dam has burst.
Clinton got more votes than Sanders, that is why they went rightwards instead of leftwards. On the topic of that person saying leftists need to vote to move the needle, you claimed that was wrong. That’s delusional? You want them to ignore the majority of their voters and go left because you felt excited about Sanders? I did also but what the hell.
I’m glad Harris is popular with the Dem majority who do reliably vote as well as the unreliable younger demographics. It is looking pretty good. I hope it does get voters excited enough to show up and I hope the leftward ones continue to participate in the future so that the needle swings in the correct direction.
I’m glad Harris is popular with the Dem majority who do reliably vote as well as the unreliable younger demographics.
I’m glad the party decided to fucking listen for once. The enthusiasm is because they listened. The listening was not because of enthusiasm, but rather its absence.
Yeah, the purity ponies back in 2016 did a lot of damage to this country. Not sure if how many of them learned their lesson. I imagine some of the younger ones did. In any case, as it turns out, no revolution of the proletariat was accelerated by having the convicted felon in for a term. Things that actually happened instead: a rigged supreme court, more tax cuts for the elite and for corporations, and stealing of women’s rights.
I’m seeing a bit of a redux this time around with the #bidensoold and “Genocide Joe” stuff. Again, people seeking a perfect candidate when no such thing exists.
Real leftists understand the principles of harm reduction. Voting for Harris, as voting for Biden would have done, has the outcome of reducing harm compared to trump winning. Sure, there will still be harm, but it’ll be less, and that’s incredibly important. It’s basically the same foundation behind how we need to help drug addiction. Although Harris will likely cause even less harm than Biden.
Chances are that the “leftists” arguing for the purity test of Harris are people who aren’t truly at risk in this election. They won’t have their basic human rights torn apart if trump wins. They’re leftists in name only.
It honestly feels that they are more like Foreign Agents seeking to cause harm to other countries than real “Leftists”. I used to consider myself Far Left until I ran into rabid Marxist-Lenonist Leftists (see Lemmy.ML) and how ‘left’ I was was put into perspective.
Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps you are more left than they are? They will ban you from their communities for Horseshoe Theory should you mention this. But when it comes to authoritarian ideology as ml is. Though they’ll swear up and down it’s not despite every time it’s ever been implemented it’s always been authoritarian. Much the same as economic liberalism . But authoritarians are always authoritarian first. Anything resembling left or right is a passing thought at best.
Interesting concept actually. I haven’t thought about that before.
Remember a lot of Rednecks volunteered in Catalonia back in the Spanish civil war, and came back fucking hating fascists and so called communists. I heard quite a few old bastards refer to the Soviets as “backstabbing pseudofascists” because the Soviets in Republican Spain were purging anyone who didnt adore the Soviets. Though not a Redneck George Orwell had a lot to say about that shit since he also saw it.
I haven’t just considered it, I know for a fact that I’m farther left than an edgelord who thinks being “left” involves assuming the moniker of an actual historical freedom fighter as if to appropriate their struggles from the comfort of an air conditioned computer chair.
A person who is against the lies on .ml is indeed more leftist than most everyone on .ml.
They praise “socialist” countries that are actually state capitalist and producing hundreds of billionaires. It is very clear and overt that their priorities are nominally left authoritarianism over leftist economics.
Yes there does need to be a revolution and solidarity among the proletariat. But authority no matter how good intentioned left to stand. Always seeks to justify their existence even through destructive means.
It was one of the things that the founding fathers of the United States for all their flaws understood fairly well. That was quickly forgotten and ignored once they had passed.
On, the, nose. There’s a few I’m pretty sure aren’t American. Not a Russian or bot accusation. And another decent contingent from States and areas so safely blue that they’re just out of touch. And don’t care about the possible damage they do. Choosing to virtue signal over trying to appeal to other people.
I’m accusing. A lot of them are fucking Russians.
Another large contingent is very very obviously just edgy teenagers.
This is an important point - it must be really nice to be in a position where neither you nor any of your loved ones would be at risk with another Trump presidency.
I mean, I mostly agree, but damn the ultra-left marginalized white non-binary anti-Harris idiots who don’t care that Trump would be worse for Gaza than literally any other person on the planet are real.
Oh and also the libertarians (always white, middle class ones) who think anyone who insists on strategically voting is a “brainwashed sheep”.
Children on college campuses who think mommy and daddy’s money will shield them from negative consequences.
Not to mention the basic principle of democracy: political parties have a tendency to gravitate towards where the votes are.
The Democratic party isn’t a static thing. They will move further left if it gets them more votes. They move right if that gets them more votes. If the Democrats go further right, it’s not to spite leftists screaming on the internet. It’s because leftists aren’t voting and screaming on the internet is meaningless.
Leftists that aren’t voting are leftist that don’t actually want any leftist policies implemented. They just want to complain about policies not being implemented while doing nothing to make it happen. If they actually believe in the changes they say they want they’d be willing to vote in as many elections as necessary to see it happen. Over the course of decades id necessary. Voting in zero elections shows very dedication for what they claim to be important.
Obama ran to Clinton’s left and was insanely popular. What way did the party move after his presidency?
You mean towards the largest number of votes?
And who won that election?
The thing you were arguing about is that they will not move left even if it gets them more votes. You referenced 2016. It looks like they went towards the more votes even in 2016, no?
You now wish to change your argument. “If Dems had ignored the more votes and gone further left, it would have won the election,” am I reading that correctly?
I also preferred Sanders. But I don’t see how you can logically hold both those positions.
The party saw that Obama was popular when he was to Clinton’s left. They moved right anyway. They lost. Yes, Clinton got more votes than Trump. They still moved to the right after it was demonstrated that moving left excited voters.
They move right no matter what and make up excuses after the fact. At least until last week. And just look at how excited Democrats finally are. The dam has burst.
Clinton got more votes than Sanders, that is why they went rightwards instead of leftwards. On the topic of that person saying leftists need to vote to move the needle, you claimed that was wrong. That’s delusional? You want them to ignore the majority of their voters and go left because you felt excited about Sanders? I did also but what the hell.
I’m glad Harris is popular with the Dem majority who do reliably vote as well as the unreliable younger demographics. It is looking pretty good. I hope it does get voters excited enough to show up and I hope the leftward ones continue to participate in the future so that the needle swings in the correct direction.
I’m glad the party decided to fucking listen for once. The enthusiasm is because they listened. The listening was not because of enthusiasm, but rather its absence.
Yeah, the purity ponies back in 2016 did a lot of damage to this country. Not sure if how many of them learned their lesson. I imagine some of the younger ones did. In any case, as it turns out, no revolution of the proletariat was accelerated by having the convicted felon in for a term. Things that actually happened instead: a rigged supreme court, more tax cuts for the elite and for corporations, and stealing of women’s rights.
I’m seeing a bit of a redux this time around with the #bidensoold and “Genocide Joe” stuff. Again, people seeking a perfect candidate when no such thing exists.