• socsa@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Sorry, you can’t have democracy without basic political agency. You can’t have basic political agency without the ability to speak freely.

      Picking between three party approved technocrats is not sufficient for political self determination.

            • socsa@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              It’s like you don’t even have a passing familiarity with Chinese politics. The local councils which the average person can actually vote for are notoriously corrupt. Easily as bad as anything you’ll find in the west, and often far more so.

              • drgltch@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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                1 year ago

                A major difference between China and the West re: corruption is that it’s institutionalized in the West and called “lobbying.” Because of this, it’s easy for Westerners to point at China and say local councils are “notoriously corrupt” but not bat an eye at lobbyists, rich donors, and [super]pacs swaying Congressional votes.

                • socsa@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Bro, I have family in China and have lived there for a few years. You are completely delusional about how this works in practice. I’ve also seen the real terror on the real face of a real person when you so much as utter some controversial political language in the wrong company.

                  It’s actually insane to me that you will call the west brainwashed, and then quote satisfaction surveys of the CCP without a hint of self awareness. Come on. You want actual data? China is ranked lower than basically every other developed nation on the global corruption perception index.

                  https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022

    • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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      1 year ago

      I’m not interested in any political system where I can’t criticize the ruling party without fearing for my or my family’s safety or permanently becoming unable to find employment anywhere except coal/steel plants working 12-14/hours straight 6 days a week for piss wages…

        • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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          1 year ago

          Don’t get me wrong, I’m an anarchist, I’m against the USA model as much as the Chinese model.

          But lol, yeah sorry, not interested in being forced to conform by a hierarchy of “leaders” who have no inherent right to do so in the name of “society” or some vague idea of the greater good/social contract.

                • Akasazh@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Not really successes at all if you’ve read your Marx.

                  All of them followed in Stalins ‘leninistic’ (how ironic) approach. With a single ruler that reeks of old fashioned monarchism rather then the rule of the prolitariat. Some of them even renouncing communism and embracing blatant capitalism (some only embracing capitalism but staying communist in name only).

                  The only thing they do for pure marxism is accelerating the revolution to come, but actualy condoning repression in other places just for that sake is quite fin de siecle type of marxist thought.

            • Sploosh the Water@vlemmy.net
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              1 year ago
              1. Fallacious argument. Just because something hasn’t been successful before or people don’t see how to make it work doesn’t justify an existing unethical/immoral system. Plenty of people thought it was crazy to imagine a world where slavery wasn’t a thing. That didn’t justify continuing that system though.

              2. There are many of examples of anarchist or pseudo-anarchist communities that exist. Many Shaolin monastic communities are anarchistic, and egalitarian depending on the sect. Some Mennonite and old world Amish communities are anarchistic also, having only collective property and some personal property, no privatization.

              Some first nations tribes were pseudo-anarchist, operating as a collective with egalitarian leadership based largely on life experience and wisdom, they maintained completely voluntary relationships with other tribes in the region and had no private property.

    • janeshep@feddit.it
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      1 year ago

      Democracy is working just fine in China according to people who live there.

      Lmao, what? You can’t be serious.

      Wait, are you serious?!