I think it’s possible they can’t, depending on the algorithm used and whether they have low-level access to hardware and/or firmware. It’s possible that some of the recommended algorithms were chosen for subtle NSA backdoors, and I’m sure they have a lot of resources to throw at high-value communications, but I’d be surprised if every algorithm in current use, with large enough keys, can be cracked by them. A low-level backdoor in the hardware device itself would be a different matter, and this seems like a more practical approach for the NSA than cracking the encryption directly, particularly where the participants are taking extra care. So I’d say it’s possible but not certain that they can hear/read these conversations.
I can’t say much, but I do know they have every computing capacity you can imagine, as well as at least one of every piece of HW, even the stuff that’s built in a basement.
Still, as far as is commonly known, mathematically cracking encryption where the algorithm is good and keys are large and unique remains impractical for conventional computers. If they’re secretly way ahead on quantum computing (which seems unlikely), or if they have discovered mathematical vulnerabilities in common algorithms that have not been published, then that’s a different matter. But as far as we know, it must still be difficult for them to attack encryption directly. You suggest you know more than you can say, but if I were them I’d be looking at putting backdoors into phone/computer hardware to get hold of communications before they are E2E encrypted, and/or placing subtle vulnerabilities in open-source code.
But this is not like the past. Quantum computers is not an step in evolution, it is a jump, as if from no computers to computers. Of course it’s possible, but there is no basis or indication for it and so no reason to assume it. Why believe the less likely thing instead of the more likely?
If you don’t understand what the government/military technology is capable of, I’m sorry. I had a coworker who worked in and around extremely high level military surveillance years ago. Back then, they had the capability of turning on any cell phone microphone or camera and real time listen in. He wouldnt go beyond that, but did say/ the surveillance satellites in movies have nothing on current (even back then) capabilities. Imagine now
We are just now learning of Locate X who can pinpoint almost any phone location, tie it to advertising id’s and view its movement history, and build an entire picture of what virtually any person on this planet is doing. That’s just a company, not the government.
At this point in my life, I view anti tracking, ad block, encryption, alternate OSs etc. as keeping honest people honest. Military/govt. tech has ways around it all.
Nah, just a guy that read the entire comment tree.
While I agree with you that there’s a very very high likelihood of the conversation being recorded in some form or another and likely through a side channel, I feel that your “my sweet child… do you not think the NSA can break encryption” comment to be both condescending to the person you replied to, and hypocritical to the comment I replied to.
Neither you nor I are cryptographers. We can’t attest to the security or lack thereof of published cryptographic algorithms.
You can’t just be a good cryptographer to break a sound encryption. It doesn’t work that way. You’re basically saying you know p=np which is… I’ll just say bold
I worked decades in the phone business. So, I kinda know how it works. Back in the day, we’d call this an invitation to a dick measurement. Not interested
That’s very exciting for you I suppose, my dad works at Nintendo. People can claim whatever they want on the Internet. You’ll have to forgive me for not being impressed by your unverifiable bona fides.
My sweet child…you think the NSA cannot break encryption?
I think it’s possible they can’t, depending on the algorithm used and whether they have low-level access to hardware and/or firmware. It’s possible that some of the recommended algorithms were chosen for subtle NSA backdoors, and I’m sure they have a lot of resources to throw at high-value communications, but I’d be surprised if every algorithm in current use, with large enough keys, can be cracked by them. A low-level backdoor in the hardware device itself would be a different matter, and this seems like a more practical approach for the NSA than cracking the encryption directly, particularly where the participants are taking extra care. So I’d say it’s possible but not certain that they can hear/read these conversations.
That does presuppose they don’t have a direct tap on either or both lines somewhere.
To get around end-to-end encryption the tap would have to be in the phone handset itself or a vulnerability in the code. I wouldn’t rule either out.
I can’t say much, but I do know they have every computing capacity you can imagine, as well as at least one of every piece of HW, even the stuff that’s built in a basement.
Still, as far as is commonly known, mathematically cracking encryption where the algorithm is good and keys are large and unique remains impractical for conventional computers. If they’re secretly way ahead on quantum computing (which seems unlikely), or if they have discovered mathematical vulnerabilities in common algorithms that have not been published, then that’s a different matter. But as far as we know, it must still be difficult for them to attack encryption directly. You suggest you know more than you can say, but if I were them I’d be looking at putting backdoors into phone/computer hardware to get hold of communications before they are E2E encrypted, and/or placing subtle vulnerabilities in open-source code.
Conventional computers…
What do you think they have? Alien computers? Not even super-computers make a dent in decryption.
If it’s anything like their past, they have at least 2 working Quantum computers.
But this is not like the past. Quantum computers is not an step in evolution, it is a jump, as if from no computers to computers. Of course it’s possible, but there is no basis or indication for it and so no reason to assume it. Why believe the less likely thing instead of the more likely?
Not a conventional computer. Would you agree?
If you don’t understand what the government/military technology is capable of, I’m sorry. I had a coworker who worked in and around extremely high level military surveillance years ago. Back then, they had the capability of turning on any cell phone microphone or camera and real time listen in. He wouldnt go beyond that, but did say/ the surveillance satellites in movies have nothing on current (even back then) capabilities. Imagine now
We are just now learning of Locate X who can pinpoint almost any phone location, tie it to advertising id’s and view its movement history, and build an entire picture of what virtually any person on this planet is doing. That’s just a company, not the government.
At this point in my life, I view anti tracking, ad block, encryption, alternate OSs etc. as keeping honest people honest. Military/govt. tech has ways around it all.
I once enabled some of of those things for a particular customer years ago.
I always liked the idea of leaving a text at a specific location for a specific phone.
AES is freely available and if they knew of any weaknesses it probably wouldn’t be approved for use on TS data.
Everybody is an expert
I see the pot is calling the kettle black.
But I never claimed to be an expert. Is this the same guy I just blocked?
Nah, just a guy that read the entire comment tree.
While I agree with you that there’s a very very high likelihood of the conversation being recorded in some form or another and likely through a side channel, I feel that your “my sweet child… do you not think the NSA can break encryption” comment to be both condescending to the person you replied to, and hypocritical to the comment I replied to.
Neither you nor I are cryptographers. We can’t attest to the security or lack thereof of published cryptographic algorithms.
Your last sentence is true. It is also true that members of the NSA are cryptographers, and plenty good at it too.
You can’t just be a good cryptographer to break a sound encryption. It doesn’t work that way. You’re basically saying you know p=np which is… I’ll just say bold
Another expert heard from. Thans for the Input
Don’t need to be an expert to know they’ve changed algorithms and recommended key lengths based on non-public information in the past.
If they allow an algorithm for their own data, it’s unlikely they can easily break it.
They have other ways of listening to your phone calls. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/
I worked decades in the phone business. So, I kinda know how it works. Back in the day, we’d call this an invitation to a dick measurement. Not interested
That’s very exciting for you I suppose, my dad works at Nintendo. People can claim whatever they want on the Internet. You’ll have to forgive me for not being impressed by your unverifiable bona fides.
I thought I told you I wasn’t interested
Interested enough to respond apparently. It’s cute that you think you have some authority here though.
Well, I do have the authority to block someone who needlessly continues to bother me.