Yeah this protest only works if there are also another set of restaurants that specifically tell you not to tip that you can give business to. I have been to some but they are very rare where I live.
At this point youre just being disingenuous. There’s a thousand comments in this thread answering that question, and explaining why stiffing the workers doesn’t really affect the owners, or incentivise them to change anything.
If no one is going there and they don’t know why, and they’re losing money because they’re not getting enough business, they’re not going to decide the solution is to start paying their waiters more. That will just cause them to close down sooner.
Also, just as they don’t know why people stopped going there unless every single one calls them and makes it clear it’s due to tipping/wages, the people protesting aren’t going to know even if they do start paying the waiters more.
Almost every waiter I’ve ever spoken to also prefers tipping because they make more than if they were being paid more, because the business isn’t going to pay them as high as they were making in tips (on average).
The only way they even could, is if they raised the price of everything by 25%. As much as people say they’d be fine with that, such high prices would drive some number of people away. There’s also the issue that if the business owner realised people would pay that much higher, they’d inevitably keep some for themselves and only somewhat increase server wages.
This isn’t to say that I think avoiding tipping is the way to fix it either, just that I don’t think it’s as clear cut as just avoiding the business.
Yeah lets ignore all of history and just invent stuff about “free markets”. All this and you haven’t addressed why we bother with minimum wage at all if this was true. Or why we bother with OSHA if construction workers would just pressure companies to change.
You know when the ad for your phone bill says “no hidden fees” ? They know that’s what people cared about, and they changed it. Now it’s just commonplace even when it’s not regulated. Shoving this on the worker makes no sense, the employer has the leverage
Those are laws. If you want a law that bans tipping and assures a higher wage for waiters then sure, that’s fine, but boycotting businesses won’t get those laws made.
Cmon dude. All these people are saying we don’t need these laws because waiters can just quit to pressure businesses to pay them well. So why do these laws even exist? You didnt even respond to the last post. I wont hold my breath.
Businesses that don’t have convoluted pay schemes that involve tips will die, and businesses that advertise tipping isn’t a thing will thrive, like has happened many times in the past.
You know what doesn’t change anything? Forcing the people stuck in the system to get more stuck in the system…
Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.
Honestly, in these debates more often than not I find that the waiters don’t want tipping culture changed either. A lot (not all, I understand) of waiters make bank on tips and then don’t accurately report them as income so it’s not even taxed correctly. They don’t want that to change.
Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.
The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.
How does this form of protest translate into a change of the tipping system?
Yeah this protest only works if there are also another set of restaurants that specifically tell you not to tip that you can give business to. I have been to some but they are very rare where I live.
Or just don’t go to restaurants. There are other ways of getting food.
At this point youre just being disingenuous. There’s a thousand comments in this thread answering that question, and explaining why stiffing the workers doesn’t really affect the owners, or incentivise them to change anything.
If no one is going there and they don’t know why, and they’re losing money because they’re not getting enough business, they’re not going to decide the solution is to start paying their waiters more. That will just cause them to close down sooner.
Also, just as they don’t know why people stopped going there unless every single one calls them and makes it clear it’s due to tipping/wages, the people protesting aren’t going to know even if they do start paying the waiters more.
Almost every waiter I’ve ever spoken to also prefers tipping because they make more than if they were being paid more, because the business isn’t going to pay them as high as they were making in tips (on average).
The only way they even could, is if they raised the price of everything by 25%. As much as people say they’d be fine with that, such high prices would drive some number of people away. There’s also the issue that if the business owner realised people would pay that much higher, they’d inevitably keep some for themselves and only somewhat increase server wages.
This isn’t to say that I think avoiding tipping is the way to fix it either, just that I don’t think it’s as clear cut as just avoiding the business.
Yeah lets ignore all of history and just invent stuff about “free markets”. All this and you haven’t addressed why we bother with minimum wage at all if this was true. Or why we bother with OSHA if construction workers would just pressure companies to change.
You know when the ad for your phone bill says “no hidden fees” ? They know that’s what people cared about, and they changed it. Now it’s just commonplace even when it’s not regulated. Shoving this on the worker makes no sense, the employer has the leverage
Those are laws. If you want a law that bans tipping and assures a higher wage for waiters then sure, that’s fine, but boycotting businesses won’t get those laws made.
Cmon dude. All these people are saying we don’t need these laws because waiters can just quit to pressure businesses to pay them well. So why do these laws even exist? You didnt even respond to the last post. I wont hold my breath.
Businesses that don’t have convoluted pay schemes that involve tips will die, and businesses that advertise tipping isn’t a thing will thrive, like has happened many times in the past.
You know what doesn’t change anything? Forcing the people stuck in the system to get more stuck in the system…
Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.
If tips are bad, the worker quits. If sales are bad, the worker is fired and might collect unemployment benefits.
So we don’t need OSHA? We can just let construction workers quit if the contractors make them do dangerous stuff?
Youre a bit oblivious to your privilege. People can’t just quit or yknow, they starve.
Honestly, in these debates more often than not I find that the waiters don’t want tipping culture changed either. A lot (not all, I understand) of waiters make bank on tips and then don’t accurately report them as income so it’s not even taxed correctly. They don’t want that to change.
I don’t give a shit what the waiter wants honestly, I shouldn’t have to pay the owner and the worker separately
I don’t disagree with you.