Let’s make Windows 10 the last version ever used!
*Sat. 28 Dec. 11h* Stage YELL #KDEEco 's Call To Action against e-waste driven by #Windows10.
*Mon. 30 Dec. 13-15h* B&B habitat join the BoF to organize a global #FreeSoftware campaign to raise awareness of Windows 10’s EoL in 2025, the role of software in #eWaste, and how independent, sustainable #FOSS is a solution to keep devices in use & out of the landfill.
https://fahrplan.alpaka.space/jugend-hackt-38c3-2024/talk/ST8NJA/
I think that is what you need to do to learn anything on computers… It’s a skill, yeah, you need to improve it and not get scared, I remember those feelings a time ago, and now I realize everything fixes if I just read the docs/issues. No need to ask, so I wish the best for you and remember always to read the docs before posting/asking.
Depends, if a noob tries to do something complex they won’t be able, let’s use common sense also here. Don’t try to do your own distro, but you can learn how Kdenlive works to edit a video or use
--helpon a command if you are not sure what it does or can do.If you don’t understand the technical details of the documentation, or you search for what are those technical details (that can solve your issues) or you are on the wrong documentation.
For a common user, if they want to play a game they just need to install Steam and enable the option to play Windows games on Linux, that would be the same as doing it on Windows, if the user doesn’t know how to do it, they search and some user or doc explains to go to the settings and enable it, or install steam via commands or using GUI.
If the application Kdenlive stopped to work without any error message, then you can go to the source git page and look for issues related, and you would appreciate a lot to find all the open source programs and dependencies with their own git pages to find recent issues reported (on Windows is harder as most stuff is hidden and closed).
But if Microsoft Office stop to work without any error message, then yeah, developers needs to send you random steps to hope it fixes your issues, and probably they won’t ask you the logs, not much doc to read for this case. I think they have some basic help steps like re-install, clean cache and reboot your device, that doesn’t really help when something is crashing hard.
If the documentation you’re reading is too technic then you need to improve your tech skills, there is nothing wrong learning how a desktop interface works (as example), in the future you will be able to adapt it to your needs, and it won’t force you to accept a change like with WinXP/Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11 interfaces.
Maybe 3 of 10 people that asked me that actually did anything, other people are just lazy that thinks the work of a programmer is easy, as a programmer we need to read many documentation for everything new or change or update on our development stuff. We not only read but also write documentation, to then, some random guy to ask something you have been writing on your own blog and documentation. Understand then if they just respond you telling to read the docs.
That’s the issue. The median user will get scared. They can’t accurately assess their own competence before they try it, and trying something new is scary. “What if I break something? What if I can’t undo it?” They won’t rely on docs or git pages or man pages or
--help(they may not want to touch the CLI at all), because ultimately, that would require them relying on their own understanding thereof.Impersonal docs, particularly if they’re not written with accessibility for laypeople in mind, can’t replace guides, and a general guide can’t replace specific advice, and none of these can replace the assurance of having a universally helpful support community that will hold their hand if they need it and reliably bail them out if something goes wrong. The median user cannot possibly teach themselves, because they lack the fundamental knowledge and confidence to even assess their level of understanding. You and I, we’re on the tech end of the distribution. We have a basic understanding and mindset. The median user does not.
They can’t trust themselves, so they need someone else to trust. If we want to welcome more people into the FOSS ecosystem in general and Linux in particular, we need to be that someone, and they need to know that they will have that support.
It’s not just about helping them, it’s about the public impression. If they google for assistance and only find threads telling people to RTFM, they’re scared to ask, scared to try even. The learning curve you take for granted, the skill “you need to improve”, looks a lot like a wall from that point of view.
Linux is still perceived as a rather technical thing. We need to cultivate the impression - and the community to back it up - that it’s not actually complicated, and that you’ll readily find people to help you if you take the leap.
Improving tech literacy is an important thing, no doubt, but you can’t get people on board by saying “you have to”. You have to coax them over by promising easy returns on a small investment of time and effort, then let their curiosity lead them further - if they need deeper skills at all.
Ah yes, because you have the choice of so many different documentations for everything, and all those documentations make sure to point out the others in case you landed on the wrong one for you.
Doesn’t have to be laziness. If your misconception is shattered, that’s a shock. If they don’t have anyone to ease them through that shock, they’ll do the most natural thing: stay away. If you make it easy to get into, you’ll surely have more success than by walling them off so that only those willing to climb can get into your walled garden.
I don’t get now where you want to go now. If you want to know about computers then read, if not… just keep using things that marketing sells you. If you want to ask without reading, then better pay for a professional (or ask for someone close to you that knows computers). Like all Windows users do when they have issues. And this would apply online, if you don’t pay them, why they need to read for you? Pay for the time professionals spend for you if you can’t read. Normally people don’t read complex documentation, they just need how to install some app or how to configure something from their desktop or printer drivers, pay or read how to do it, doesn’t matter if you are using Windows or Linux, because Windows also crashes and have issues also, Linux is ready for users.
Anything new is hard, if they are used to Windows as most people, everyone would think Windows is easier than Linux, but it’s just because they are used to the other OS. Get used to Linux. Use it, read how it works. Start small. Don’t read complex documentation or even try to compile the kernel on your first day.
Let me clarify: I myself have used Linux as my only OS since the end of Win7 support, but I’ve used it via dualboot for anything not gaming even before. I’m fairly adept by now, so this whole conversation isn’t about my personal learning.
It’s about coaxing Windows users over to Linux. If you don’t care about that, stop reading and stop replying, because that’s what the whole thread was about and you clearly missed the point. If you do, we need to give people both a reason to switch and an easy transition.
Linux has a public image of “complicated” and will always have the hurdle of having to learn something different. The point is that we need to update the first (the public perception) and help people over the second as smoothly as possible. We need to project the impression that it’s no longer complicated like it used to be, and if you need help with anything, there will be plenty of people willing to help you.
And that’s where we get to the “RTFM” issue: People responding to questions with “You’re on your own” harm that impression. A new user skimming a forum or googling some issue can’t tell whether it’s a simple question or a hard question, whether it’s good documentation or bad documentation, all they see is someone asking for help and getting a “lol no”. That reputation spreads, and it speaks to a self-centered culture where “figure it out yourself” isn’t just acceptable, but the norm.
If you want to win people over, you have to welcome them in. That includes showing a willingness to help them.
Besides, isn’t the whole point of FOSS to help each other out for free, to break the commercial cycle of enshittification and exploitation?
Sorry, I will use “a person” when trying to make examples not related with you.
I’m super obsessed with Linux, I always tell people to use Linux, I try even the older people to get into Linux, I tell friends to install it and I try to help them. I’m really obsessed with Linux system, I really love it, and it hurts me when people just gets scared when I mention Linux (because that happened to me, some people don’t want to hear the “Linux” word).
I think that’s what I was talking about Microsoft never going to allow to Linux be popular, they just want it to be a solution for programmers, they don’t want people to see Linux for a daily OS. The marketing and mass media is the main issue, if more users uses Linux, more companies will focus their apps for Linux. Until then, we need to read git source pages to see if they made the app for us (anyway, Wine should be able to run it if the app doesn’t have many requirements).
It is possible to buy computers with Linux OS already installed, so you can just open the browser and search what you want to know what to do on Linux, for example video editing, you can use Kdenlive and many YouTube tutorials for Linux and you would do it also if you had Windows OS, unless you paid for a teacher, but when someone never touched a Windows, normally they need to seek for tutorials or guides, Windows and Linux has, but Windows is limited and Linux allows you to do much more.
The “F” in FOSS stands for “Free” and refers to free as in freedom, not just “free as in no cost.” You can commercialize your FOSS projects without problem, the whole point of FOSS is the freedom.
I think we’re talking in circles here. My point is: Telling people to go read the docs contributes to the perception of the linux community as closed and unhelpful. That perception doesn’t help with winning over more people. As you note:
But that cycle has to start somewhere, and until companies start picking up, we need to do it ourselves, for ideological reasons if not monetary ones. Telling people to start out with easy guides is good, but redirecting further questions to docs and git pages builds a wall.
Why should I do the reading for someone without pay? Because I can, I trust my understanding and I want to help them.
But there are hard and easy guides, just go to the easy guides. The times someone said to me to read the docs, they were right. Often when I want to start a post asking for help or reporting an issue I realize that issue has been reported already or documented before I finish writing it, because I do my searches while I write my issue adding context of it.
If your skills aren’t good for that guide, start with something simple, I don’t know what kind of issue happens that what you are explaining.
I do help anyone, no matter if they use Android, Linux, Windows, Apple… The best way to help them for me is to sit behind them and tell them what steps to take, often they ask me what to do, and then I tell them to read what is on the screen, the app window or the popup, and here I say, “just read, what does it say?” and the text they read is often the response to what they want to do.
That’s what I mean: we’re techies. We know what context may be relevant. We know how to read that documentation and we know how to search for it. When we read documentation, we can tell whether we understand it, we can try if a fix applies to our issue, we can recognise if a given issue description matched ours. When we read a message, we know what is or isn’t a technical term and what they refer to. We know synonyms like folder and directory, we understand that a word document, powerpoint presentation or executable all are “files”, we trust our understanding and our ability to compensate whatever we don’t know with searches or educated guesses.
All of these things require understanding a lot of tech words and a degree of trust in your understanding, and that’s where non-tech users hit a snag. I’ll tell them “You don’t need to buy a new Windows key to reinstall it, you can check your current one. Here’s a good and detailed guide.” They’ll get back with “I don’t know what that command thing is, it looks scary, I’m not doing that” because they don’t trust themselves. It’s literally a step by step guide for opening the cmd, entering a command and finding a relevant part of the text it produces, and they get scared that they’ll mess it up because they have absolutely zero understanding of the components. They don’t know what a command line is, they don’t know what a text command is, they know nothing of what we take for granted.
They said they’d need someone to guide them through and basically hold their hand for it, someone to unfuck whatever they fuck up, or at least confirm that what they’re doing is right, to help them understand the output and assure them that the text means exactly what they think it means.
When you sit behind them and tell them what to do, to just read the message without fear of not understanding, that’s exactly the helping I mean. In order to even dare to try Linux, people need the assurance that, whatever their issue, someone will be there for them. And that assurance comes through the way we treat questions online - all question, not just the more complex ones, because the layperson can’t tell the difference.
When they come asking for help, don’t send them away. No matter how familiar the docs and git pages may be for you, don’t just send them there. Show them what they have to do, where it is written, how it is written there and how to understand that writing. Guide them, and they’ll be happier to follow.