I just want to share my perspective. I just had my car totaled (not my fault) and I decided to bank the insurance payout and not rebuy, and see what it was like. I didn’t think I’d cope since I’m now 50 and had a car my whole life from age 16.
I’m actually a little shocked to say I don’t I miss the car, and further I actively enjoy not having a car anymore. It did necessitate rearranging some of my habits, but now I save a shitload of money and I seem to find it more convenient in more ways than I expected. And it’s just so much less stress and worry.
I’ve never been fitter, and the freedom from lugging it around, gassing it up, washing it, maintaining, finding parking, blabla saves me time and bother almost everywhere. I stress so much less because of constant vandalism, and needing to seek stable non-ticketed parking at friends’ places and at my apartment.
There are times I need to do a big shopping thing or just go to the beach, I rent a car for a day. I don’t need to live a life of deprivation I just re-balanced things. If I need to go out for some special occasion I cab/uber round trip.
Preface: I’m jealous.
That out of the way, I think this really depends on where you live and your job. Carless in single family detached housing suburbia does not sound like fun. Being carless seems like a no-brainer in a dense area with decent public transportation and/or within walking distance of your job.
An article about Americans.
The picture shows a driver in the right seat.
🤦♂️
mirrored image my friend
The guardian is British, probably why.
As I always say in posts about this topic: Living in a walkable city is nice. I can just walk outside and get groceries. No traffic. No fuel costs. No insurance. No maintenance. No parking. I just walk down the street and get stuff. If there’s a lot of stuff I need, I bring a cart, but I almost never need to do that.
Most of the places that I’ve looked at that are walkable are a lot more expensive to live. Unfortunately, I think this is a luxury that a lot of people do not have the means to access.
This is probably true for a lot of places. I’ve mostly lived in the NYC area so I don’t know what the costs and expenses are elsewhere very well.
You can get a 1BR apartment in Brooklyn for $2k/mo. That’s more expensive than some of my friends that live elsewhere pay, but cars are expensive so the actual cost is offset.
Personally I think the government should be subsidizing urban living. Suburbanization was a mistake. It’s so isolating. We should have more public housing.
Suburbia hell checking in. We have a family of four and our 3 bed 1.75 bath (shower stall vs full bath) with mortgage, taxes, and insurance is less than $1,250/mo on a 30 year mortgage. It is modest in terms of square footage, but is well maintained and has a full basement and a green space for the kids to run. We tend to buy 2-3 year old cars and then drive them into the ground. The nice thing with the house is that our monthly payment is basically fixed until it’s paid off since tax increases are capped at 2% per year. The downside to a house is being on the hook for all the maintenance.
We’re considering moving and I’m very curious to try to game out what the actual financials of moving somewhere like NYC or Philly would be. Salaries would likely go up some, rent would likely go up significantly, no cars, and the tradeoffs between owning and renting. Anything else you would point at?
I was always jealous of the kids that grew up in the city. They could do stuff. Where I lived, it wasn’t really safe to travel on foot because there were no sidewalks, and everything was far away. They’d tell me about how they went ice skating , or to a board game cafe, or to the beach, and I’d be like cool i was stuck inside alone. I don’t know if you can put a price tag on this exactly, but for me this would have been priceless.
One of my former coworkers was in NJ, and he spent a lot of time driving his kid places. He missed out on social +/or work events and his kid missed out on autonomy. Also doesn’t have a clear price tag, but I think it’s valuable.
It is also possible to buy a home in the city. Some people I know bought their apartment. They seemed happy with it, but we never discussed financial details.
I spent 15 years living in central NJ and there really isn’t much to do there, especially during the winter when you can’t do outdoors things.
We’re currently living in SE MI and the Detroit Metro has so much more to do. Yeah, it’s not the absolute best but we have a great art museum, a zoo, tons of outdoor parks, and a number of medium sized museums. Relatively cheap land and taxes means there are plenty of commercial places to take the kids to for indoor play. Between these and the museums we keep the kids busy during the winter. Every “town” in the Metro has an annual event, so when it’s warm out theres basically one every weekend. Tons of art and music festivals, along with car shows.
NYC and Philly have nicer museums, and more cultural attractions, but I suspect they don’t have as many indoor play type things. I also have no idea about the school situation. Thankfully, our public schools are pretty good here.
I didn’t realize you could own apartments, but I guess that makes sense. I doubt it would be cheap, but it’s good to know it’s an option.
It’s definitely true. There are so few places that are really walkable in the US and the demand is quite high… once you live that way, it’s hard to go back.
We really need to build more walkable areas, but it’s difficult for a lot of (mostly-nonsensical) reasons.
The only thing to keep in mind, however, is that the math changes significantly when you remove cars from the equation. Our rent is higher than somewhere less walkable, but it’s also roughly equivalent to the full price of owning two cars. So comparatively, we save a bunch of money despite higher rent.
or to “damn i forgot something” and just… walk on back to get it without it being a big deal
Living in a walkable city is nice.
This is so true! I was telling my family about that a few years ago when I was living in a semi-walkable place, and then they started grilling me about how long it takes me to do things. I had to concede that it does take longer to walk in some cases than drive, BUT the travel to and from is actually nice, and I look forward to the walk as time for looking around and enjoying my time. They didn’t understand, but they also will get in their car to drive a mile, so…
It’s also a lot easier to stop and do something fun when you’re walking. Pop in a new shop, take a detour through a park, whatever. Usually when you’re driving you’re going too fast to really take in what’s around, and stopping is often a whole ordeal of finding parking.
“Death and Life of Great American Cities” talked about this. It’s old, but still an interesting read.
Doesn’t help how owner-hostile modern cars are, either
I moved to one of the few places in Canada where you can happily function without a car, where in fact I leave my car parked because driving it around would be stupid. I keep it only because driving it on track is a hobby of mine and because I find myself needing to drive to my hometown quite often, to a place where sense has yet to reach, and so I can’t take the train.
Every time I need to drive somewhere, especially with any amount of traffic, it is a battle to keep myself thinking positive thoughts. All my journeys on foot or by metro have so much colour and life, even on grey, rainy days. By car it’s just sad highway for miles while being surrounded by angry, impatient people who wouldn’t allow another person to merge on threat of death.
I hate driving. It is a chore even when I get to drive my fun little sportscar and the fact you need to pay for the privilege makes it all the more absurd.
—
Oh, and I’m a better driver and mechanic than almost anyone else on the road(ignoring actual mechanics and race car drivers who might be driving around, obviously) and this is my stance. Meanwhile there are the worst people you know shitting their pants over a bike lane as if losing their car’s monopoly on the road would take a part of their soul away despite being far less than acceptably capable behind the wheel and despite having next to zero knowledge of how their vehicle functions.
I moved from MB to QC in 1999-2003 and I was so shocked by the differences I ended up giving my car to my sister back in MB.
Metro to work would be like 25 minutes including walk, where vehicle to parking to work would be like 1 hour.
edit: It didn’t last because I ended up shacking up with a woman who was too lazy to walk a block, so we ended up with another car. Yay. Now I get to spend 2 hours of every day constantly shoveling parking spots and driving in circles looking for parking :/
Yup, Montréal is top shit as far as North America is concerned. Metro is king, and so great for when you’re kinda tired and just want someone to drive you around. Like I said, I still have my car but I always choose not to bother with it unless I absolutely have to.
Oh, and I’m a better driver and mechanic than almost anyone else on the road
That’s what they all say.
I mean, the car I work on successfully goes a race track just fine.
But I imagine that was a joke and yea, agreed.
More about the “I’m a better driver than” part. Everyone thinks they’re an excellent driver.
Also true. I will call myself that because I specifically make sure that I actually account for weaknesses instead of ignoring them.
-
Stopping at stop signs isn’t just for the law, it’s because no matter how good you are you’ll have tired or otherwise distracted moments and stopping helps manage those safely where rolling absolutely does not.
-
I keep a good following distance, and I figured that out on my own. It’s not just for safety but also it’s the contributor to rush hour traffic.
-
I’m not afraid to actually use the gas pedal. Driving slowly is not universally safe, especially when merging onto the highway. At the same time I also don’t go tearing it up everywhere as if I’m reliving Need For Speed. I can also take a corner without drastically slowing down or cutting lanes unlike the lady who squished my front end between her Corolla and the curb coming out of a two-lane roundabout because I dunno I guess she didn’t like her outside lane or something.
-
I know how to drift, quite well even. Yea it’s fun as hell but it also means that I don’t become a danger to myself and others in inclement weather and I can feel problems happening with enough time to address them instead of before it’s already too late. My sister says she’s afraid to learn how to drift because she’s afraid of sliding but not having knowledge isn’t going to save her from encountering snow and ice.
I can go on and on but ultimately these are basic things that other drivers routinely fail to execute and many will even argue against them. They aren’t just not doing the right things but willingly doing dangerous things. I admit that I will also make mistakes and I work hard to make sure that they are rare.
So yea, you’re right that most people think they’re good drivers because their threshold for excellence is not having been in a major accident/blaming others but I’m pretty confident in my abilities. Certainly confident enough to say what I said.
I’m pretty confident in my abilities. Certainly confident enough to say what I said.
That’s what they all say.
-
Yeah that’s the thing and not unaffordable housing. Sure, Jan.
The two are closely connected.
You can’t really build affordable and convenient car-dependent style housing (think single-family suburbs) for everyone because they take too much space. So you’ll always end up with the situation where well-located houses are outrageously expensive and you get cheaper by buying something much further out. Essentially people are willing to pay a premium to no have to drive for a long time to get anywhere.
The only reason why conveniently-located suburbs were ever affordable (think 50s or 60s) is because most people back then didn’t have a car yet, so the demand wasn’t saturated.
I have a car but I mostly ride the bus, for three reasons:
- I want my car to last as long as possible because it’s a pre-surveillance model and it still works great. The less I drive it, the longer it will last.
- When I ride in someone else’s vehicle - be it a bus or a cab - running costs, depreciation, taxes, maintenance, parking and accidents are someone else’s problem. My life is simpler in someone else’s vehicle.
- I can do other things while I’m being chauffeured around - including talking to other passengers.
