Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful youāll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cutānāpaste it into its own post ā thereās no quota for posting and the bar really isnāt that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many āesotericā right wing freaks, but thereās no appropriate sneer-space for them. Iām talking redscare-ish, reality challenged āculture criticsā who write about everything but understand nothing. Iām talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. Theyāre inescapable at this point, yet I donāt see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldnāt be surgeons because they didnāt believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I canāt escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
(Semi-obligatory thanks to @dgerard for starting this.)
The conspiracy theorist who lives in my brain wants to say its intentional to make us more open to blatant cheating as something thatās just a ācost of doing business.ā (I swear I saw this phrase a half dozen times in the orange site thread about this)
The earnest part of me tells me no, these guys are just clowns, but I dunno, they canāt all be this dumb right?
holy shit, thatās the excuse theyāre going for? they cheated on a benchmark so hard the results are totally meaningless, sold their most expensive new models yet on the back of that cheated benchmark, further eroded the scientific process both with their cheating and by selling those models as better for scientific researchā¦ and these weird fucks want that to be fine and normal? fuck them
Yeah we would like to stop lying and cheating, but the number you see.
they canāt even sell o3 really - in o3 high mode, needed to do this level of query, itās about $1000 per query lol
do you figure itās $1000/query because the algorithms they wrote with their insider knowledge to cheat the benchmark are very expensive to run, or is it $1000/query because theyāre grifters and all high mode does is use the model trained on frontiermath and allocate more resources to the query? and like any good grifter, theyāre targeting whales and institutional marks who are so invested that throwing away $1000 on horseshit feels like a bargain
so, for an extremely unscientific demonstration, here (warning: AWS may try hard to get you to engage with Explainer[0]) is an instance of an aws pricing estimate for big handwave āsome gpu computeā
and when I say āextremely unscientificā, I mean āI largely pulled the numbers out of my assā. even so, theyāre not entirely baseless, nor just picking absolute maxvals and laughing
parametersassumptions made:(and before we get any fucking ruleslawyering dumb motherfuckers rolling in here about accuracy or whatever: get fucked kthx. this is just a very loosely demonstrative example)
so youād have a variable buffer of 50ā¦150 instances, featuring 3.2ā¦9.6TiB of RAM for working set size, 800ā¦2400 vCPU, 50ā¦150 nvidia t4 cores, and 800ā¦2400GiB gpu vram
letās presume a perfectly spherical ops team of uniform capability[3] and imagine that we have some lovely and capable active instance prewarming and correct host caching and whatnot. yāknow, things to reduce user latency. letās pretend weāre fully dynamic[4]
so, by the numbers, then
1y times 4h daily gives us 1460h (in seconds, thatās 5256000). this extremely inaccurate full-of-presumptions number gives us āservice-capable life timeā. the times your concierge is at the desk, the times you can get pizza delivered.
x3 to get to lifetime matching our spot commit, x50ā¦x150 to get to ātotal possible instance hoursā. which is the top end of our sunshine and rainbows pretend compute budget. which, of course, we still have exactly no idea how to spend. because we donāt know the real cost of servicing a query!
but letās work backwards from some made-up shit, using numbers The Poor Public gets (vs numbers Free Microsoft Credits will imbue unto you), and see where we end up!
so that means our baseline:
>=200k/y
per ops/whatever person we have3y of 4h-daily at 50 instances = 788400000 seconds. at 150 instances, 2365200000 seconds.
so we can say that, for our deeply Whiffs Ever So Slightly values, a secondās compute on the low instance-count end is $0.01722755 and $0.00574252 at the higher instance-count end! which gives us a bit of a handle!
this, of course, entirely ignores parallelism, n-instance job/load/whatever distribution, database lookups, network traffic, allllllll kinds of shit. which we canāt really have good information on without some insider infrastructure leaks anyway. if we pretend to look at the compute alone.
so what does $1000/query mean, in the sense of our very ridiculous and fantastical numbers? since the units are now The Same, we can simply divide things!
at the 50 instance mark, weād need to hypothetically spend 174139.68 instance-seconds. thatās 2.0154 days of linear compute!
at the 150 instance mark, 522419.05 instance-seconds! 6.070 days of linear compute!
so! what have we learned? well, weāve learned that we couldnāt deliver responses to prompts in Reasonable Time at these hardware presumptions! which, again, are linear presumptions. and thereās gonna be a fair chunk of parallelism and other parts involved here. but even so, turns out itād be a bit of a sizable chunk of compute allocated. to even a single prompt response.
[0] - a product/service whose very existence I find hilarious; the entire suite of aws products is designed to extract as much money from every possible function whatsoever, leading to complexity, which they then respond to byā¦ producing a chatbot to āguide usersā
[1] - yes yes I know, the world is not uniform and the fucking promptfans come from everywhere. Iām presuming amerocentric design thinking (which imo is probably not wrong)
[2] - letās pretend that the calculatorsā presumption of 4h persistent peak load and our presumption of short-duration load approaching 4h cumulative are the same
[3] - oh, who am I kidding, you know itās gonna be some dumb motherfuckers with ansible and k8s and terraform and chucklefuckery
when digging around I happened to find this thread which has some benchmarks for a diff model
itās apples to square fenceposts, of course, since one llm is not another. but it gives something to presume from. if g4dn.2xl gave them 214 tok/s, and if we make the extremely generous presumption that tok==word (which, well, no; cf.
strawberry
), then any Use Deserving Of o3 (letās say 5~15k words) would mean you need a tok-rate of 1000~3000 tok/s for a āreasonableā response latency (ā5-ish secondsā)so youād need something like 5x g4dn.2xl just to shit out 5000 words with dolphin-llama3 in āquickā time. which, again, isnāt even whatever the fuck people are doing with openaiās garbage.
utter, complete, comprehensive clownery. era-redefining clownery.
but some dumb motherfucker in a bar will keep telling me itās the future. and I get to not boop 'em on the nose. le sigh.
They understand that all of the major model providers is doing it, but since the major model providers are richer than they are, they canāt possibly ask OpenAI and friends to stop, so in their heads, it is what it is and therefore must be allowed to continue.
Or at least, thatās my face value read of it, I certainly hope Iām simplifying things too much.
also they are rationalists and hence the most gullible mfs on any of this stuff