I’ve had several conversations/arguments recently with my brother making clear my system of values and my hatred for the wealthy. He is nearly diametrically opposed on all accounts and often makes light of their actions. He goes so far as to say that poor people and people in need of social services should have to figure things out for themselves. He often defends Elon Musk and champions him for being self made.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon and I have been able to put aside our differences and have been planning on going
…up until yesterday that is. I asked him of his thoughts on Musk’s seig heil maneuver and he sent a right wing meme of democratic leaders caught mid wave, saying that “they did it first”. He continued to be avoidant and didn’t respond to me calling it a strawman.
In this moment it feels necessary to cancel my plans to send a message that this is not ok. Am I the (or an) asshole for not going to his wedding because of this?
Nah, don’t go if you don’t want to. Family are just randomly assinged people you share the same genes with. If you don’t like them you don’t have to force yourself to like them in order to appease random strangers online.
If he truly is your family and loves you, like all the “YOU ARE DOING WHAT” posters are saying, he will understand and not hate you. If he does, fuck him.
As with all things, this can be solved by some healthy passive-aggressions:
I’d go, drink heavily, find a random corner of vaguely like minded individuals and strike up a hearty politics convo with them.
When your brother and his bride come around to ask how everyone is doing, smile blankly and nod politlely, and wait for him to leave.
Then resume the conversation.
LOL. Elon is self made? Where did he get that from?
Did he conveniently forget mommy and daddy are rich from their emerald mine?
Self made means you don’t come from wealth and don’t have a support system to make you even more rich.
Your brother is a moron.
NTA. A fascist is no longer family. You don’t even need the context for this, the red line is so brightly painted there that you’d have to be dead not to notice it.
People cut out family members for much less. I feel we are at a crucial turning point, and all we have left is letting the people we have a connection to know, that these stances are radical and not normal and that having them will have consequences. In your case not having a sibling at their wedding.
I think a lot of people would cut contact with their family at times like this due to the ways in which these kinds of beliefs often intersect with massive amounts of interpersonal abuse and broadly dysfunctional and unhappy relationships. I think this is most especially true of people who are queer, neurodivergent, disabled, or a member of some other minority, who are easily going to be subject by that abuse from their family more and more, especially as they may be more dependent on them and as they’re more noticeably going to see that abuse well up as a result of those narratives. You know, people who get to see the “ugly sides” of their family.
I would say that if you’re not actively dependent on your family, and you’re not part of an actively hated minority which they will more easily discard, disrespect, and abuse, then that makes it easier to cut them out of your life, but that’s also definitely a time at which you will counterintuitively be in the best position to sway them, since you’re at your most secure.
So I would say that this is, in some part, a decision which you should probably make in reflection of your current material circumstances, the current state of your life. This also isn’t a decision which you need to make right now, really, to cut him out of your life or decide to blow this particular one up. You said he’s already married, and that your other two brothers aren’t going, so one more probably won’t hurt things that much even if you invent an excuse.
I’m like 90% sure if I showed my dad the picture of elon musk hitting the five knuckle shuffle live on stage in 4k 60fps three times in a row, he’d probably flee to the “my heart goes out to you” comment, right before trying to find some sort of talking point he could throw down the hopper in order to justify this shit, which is really to say nothing of the fact that he basically just fundamentally agrees with elon’s actions on basically every level if he was to actually sit down and think about it for long enough. There’s some people which cannot be helped, because they will repeatedly choose not to be. There isn’t exactly a correct answer, here, I think the major thing is that if it goes sideways because of your decisions, you shouldn’t beat yourself up or crash out over it, or become overly callous.
Didn’t read the post body. NTA.
This thread made me delete lemmy - bye
This family clearly has issues, most do.
The 20 posts suggesting to ditch your family to punish them instead of talking and expressing how it bothers you is where you lost me.
I guess this is how you create echo chambers. I disagree with the majority of the opinions here, and unlike family I have no motivation to keep listening to this.
Enjoy!
Realise that you’re choosing to listen to Nazis rather than not interact with them, or not to listen to them.
Sure, someone is family. But as someone for whom family is important – even I would have my borders. If that family member were to constantly make horrid remarks – would you then really want to spend that energy having a dinner with them? The OP already has tried to talk several times and express how it bothers them. But the Nazi ignores that and doesn’t change their behaviour.
Then it’s clear: for your mental health, it’s better not to talk with them anymore. Some people, however extreme, are reconcillable. But those where you reach out multiple times, and they don’t wish to listen - there it’s a waste of time.
Nazis are way more of an echo chamber than normal people are, and the only answer to that is to close the door behind, with a note: “will talk with you only, once you change your behaviour”.
OP has tried to reach out multiple times to address their concerns, but all reactions from the family member boil down to not wanting to listen to these concerns. Is the OP then creating an echo chamber, or is the Nazi creating that for himself? Take your time to reflect on what your decision entails.
Do you care if others see you as an asshole? Remove morality and other social obligations from it, if you don’t like someone, you don’t like someone. If spending time with this person upsets you, don’t. Hell, even if you force yourself to go there’s a chance he’ll get under your skin and you’ll end up causing a problem.
For what it’s worth: something I haven’t seen come up (so while this is a pragmatic perspective, don’t pretend I’m dismissing the importance of your relationship and your values! I’m only adding this for variety and discussion)
People can change. Many won’t, but some do. [vid: former white supremacists describing their process of leaving] Whether you think your brother is willing or able to change is your call, and whether it’s worth the emotional and mental strain is your call. You aren’t obliged, but it’s worth considering.
People who have left these ideologies, from what I’ve heard, often come back to two main points - they had someone in their life who cared about them, but was also unwilling to tolerate their bullshit, and they had to want to leave it by themselves. Honestly, I see parallels with people recovering from serious drug addictions and cults like QAnon.
But, again, this isn’t easy and there’s no guarantee of them changing, so do not feel obliged to even try. Your health is more important, and there are plenty of other ways you can help change the world.
I cut my sister out of my life and didn’t go to her wedding for similar reasons. I don’t regret it one bit and it has helped my mental health tremendously. However, I didn’t do it to “teach her a lesson,” or “prove anything,” I did it so I could live with myself, and stay true to my values. We all only have limited time and energy on this planet, so think about the way you spend them and what’s most important to you. For me, my biological family is toxic. My chosen family is awesome.
I relate to this very strongly. And maybe it’s not an AITAH type question — I think of it as doing something for myself more than anything else. Sure I might lose relationships with family members but what will I gain emotionally and mentally? And will that outweigh the familial loss in the long run? … Lots to think about
Feel free to reach out to me directly if I can be a sounding board or anything. Best of luck…it’s certainly not easy, but for me, it was worth the introspection and effort.
To me this seems like a no-brainer. Don’t go.
Why would you go to an assholes wedding? I’m currently planning a wedding and if I invited someone that didn’t like me, I’d honestly rather they not come.
So. I’m not sure why you think you’d be considered an asshole. You’re two different people that aren’t friends and don’t see eye to eye. Why would you go to his wedding?
Because it is their brother’s wedding and there’s a chance he won’t be a fascist in the future but he’ll always be family?
Maybe they are friends but have different political and social values. That happens.
If supporting fascists in taking over the USA is a deal-breaker to you, thats totally understandable though. But remember it is the easy way out, convincing them would be the right thing but much harder.
Depends on how strongly you value your relationship with your brother. He may be a fuckwaffle, but he is your fuckwaffle. It’s big of you setting your differences aside. If you don’t go, and he means a lot to you outside of his political views, then you might regret not going. If you don’t really care for him and political ideology is more important then dont go. I think not going is kind of crossing the Rubicon, but I don’t know the situation part from your details
I think you’re the most correct person here.
OP, it’s your life and relationships. Of course people on the internet will tell you to pull the trigger on the nuclear option, because they don’t experience any of the fallout of you making a hardline decision.
I’m not saying go to the wedding. I’m just saying consider how it might affect your relationship with him and the rest of your immediate family and decide if that’s going to be a better situation overall, before acting.
Very level headed answer. We like to stand on principle here, but if OP doesn’t go that’s pretty much the end of their relationship, we’re talking decades to repair. If that’s what OP wants that’s what OP wants, but in this case it might be better to take the high ground and say “I think your political views are horrendous, but you’re still my brother”. Get a few drinks then duck out after the speeches.
I agree. Don’t think about it like going to the wedding or not. Decide if you want to cut ties with your brother and possibly other parts of your family. Maybe also people that don’t share his political opinions but still side with him in terms of the wedding. Chances are high that not going will permanently damage your relationship to your brother and possibly other family members that side with him. If you value your ideals higher than your family, that’s perfectly okay. But from perspective you aren’t forced to do that.
If your brother defending a nazi salute at a nazi inauguration isn’t reason enough for you to sit out his wedding, what on earth would be?
you’ll never be an asshole for not dealing with nazi apologists homie
