Edited title to match articles title.

      • Shardikprime@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:

        “Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.

        To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.

        The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.

        Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?

        This isn’t good-faith criticism.

        These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why

        • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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          1 year ago

          “They’re wrecking homes and destroying infrastructure, but at least they’re nice about it!”

          Israel is in the wrong because they’re settler colonialists who stole the land from Palestinians. There is no defensive acts, continued occupation and protection of their occupation is an offensive act.

          • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            This kind of attitude just means more conflict because Israel is never going to leave that land.

        • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites?

          Send in ground forces that can separate fighters from civilians in a way that leveling a building and killing everyone inside cannot.

          Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes

          So saying “attention, we will destroy your home, all your possessions, and your livelihood in 15 minutes”, before doing exactly that to Innocent people makes them the good guys? I don’t think so.

          Update
          It looks like they don’t even knock any more.

    • roo@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      So, it’s an unattended concentration camp, and they hope everyone dies there.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Has been for decades…

        It’s over 2 million in like 140 sq miles…

        They don’t have their own police, don’t get to vote (Israel won’t let them have an election), aren’t in control of their own utilities, don’t have freedom of movement, and get treated as subhuman.

        And Israel wants everyone to believe there’s no reason for Palestinians to hate Israel’s government.

        Put people in those conditions and refuse to treat them as humans, and some of them are going to stop acting like humans. It’s basically sociology and would happen to any population in those conditions

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Hamas is who does not allow further elections in Gaza.

          Following the Fatah–Hamas conflict that started in 2006, Hamas formed a government ruling the Gaza Strip without elections. Gazan Prime Minister Haniyye announced in September 2012 the formation of a second Hamas government, also without elections.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine

    • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If history’s taught us anything, it’s that the good guys always indiscriminately target civilians!

    • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Well, killing some and hope the rest will try to flee to Egypt at which point Gaza is free for the taking.

      Or well, maybe, they hope that in desperation people will try to rush the blockade, at which point they just kill them. Hamas awful actions have given Israel plenty of ammunition to keep everyone else on the world stage away for a while, no matter what they do now.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Hamas awful actions

        Didn’t happen in a vacuum…

        There’s reasons people are willing to die in a war they have no chance of winning.

        It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

        • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general.

          Also not a fan of carrying around naked corpses of multilated people. Not a fan.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You think every Palestinian is doing that?

            That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

            The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

            • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              You think every Palestinian is doing that?

              Which part of “Hamas awful actions” made you think that I extend this to all Palestinians?

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I mean, at the same time I can’t support mass rape. Or rape in general

                If the actions of a few are enough for you not to support Palestinians…

                Then yeah, you’re extending that to all Palestinians.

                • Chariotwheel@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Why do I need to support mass rape to support the Palestinian peoples right to a state and a free life?

                  At what point is mass rape necessary for that?

                  Rape is wrong and I stand by that in what appears to be a surprisingly controversial move.

                  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    You don’t…

                    No one said you had to, even suggested you should…

                    But when you take the actions of a few and blame an entire population for the actions of those few…

                    That’s bigotry. That’s no different than seeing a gay child abuser and claiming all gay people abuse children, or seeing a Black drug dealer and saying all Black people are now drug dealers.

                    Hell, I’m American and was in the military. American military members rape other American military members at a truly disturbing rate. Does that mean I’m guilty because I belong to the same population? To take it even further, do you blame those victims as well?

                    Do you legitimately not understand? Because I’m starting to have doubts on your sincerity

        • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          It’s stand up for your people or watch them essentially be tortured slowly to death.

          There is another option. Negotiate a viable peace, which they have refused to do repeatedly. Palestine is essentially a defeated state that refuses to acknowledge its loss or make concessions. The only victory condition they are willing to entertain is not viable and their insistence on fighting an unwinnable war, often via guerilla attacks and terrorism, will not end well for them.

          [Hamas’s charter,] article 13, “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Gaza’s last election was 17 years ago…

            And Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election.

            They won’t negotiate with Gaza, which because it was separated from the West Bank by Israel is essentially it’s own government. It’s pretty classic “divide and conquer”.

            And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

            • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Wikipedia says Palestinian presidential elections were indefinitely postponed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas due to a Hamas-Fatah schism:

              The elections took place amid a tense atmosphere between Fatah and Hamas over the postponement of more major elections that were also scheduled for 2021. It was also reported that voters were angry with the postponement of the presidential election and the legislative election by President Mahmoud Abbas.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%9322_Palestinian_local_elections


              Israel both refuses to recognize Hamas as a government, but also refuses to help Gaza hold an election. … And before you say “Israel shouldn’t be involved” then why are they in charge of pretty much every other facet of Gaza?

              Because they are an adjacent hostile terrorist state, dedicated to their destruction, that they want to contain via leverage?

        • eatthecake@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Raping women is standing up for palestinians is it? How exactly have the actions of hamas helped the palestinian people?

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You can just scroll down and read the rest of the comment chain.

            I’ll even quote the first for free

            You think every Palestinian is doing that?

            That’s the main use of propaganda, take some isolated incidents that really did happen nd really are inexcusable, and amplify the shit out of that so people think the whole side is doing that.

            The militaries of both sides are doing awful shit, but only one side has the power to enforce peace.

            • eatthecake@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You said hamas awful actions didnt happen in a vacuum and that they are standing up for their people. You are justifying mass rape as a war tactic. There is plenty criticize israel for but justifying the torture of civillians is appalling.

    • MeanEYE@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      No, and that was never the plan. Had it been Israel has far more efficient ways of doing it. The goal is to put the pressure on Hamas, two million people worth of pressure. You can claim you are fighting for freedom until stomachs start grumbling. Then Israel hopes Palestinians will turn on Hamas and the whole thing will be over or at least at a different stage where something can be done without wiping the whole place.