You must log in or # to comment.
This is like a random list.
There’s hades. There’s vampire survivors. There’s FTL.
Those are radically different games.
Would have been better to call it a list and broke it into subgenres.
It feels like a list for fans of “run based games” as it were, with Qud being the outlier.
I am strongly biased towards TOME but think any list that doesn’t reference Stoneshard at this point is doing a disservice. It is probably the most accessible “lite rogue like” at this point and should be on basically every list
with Qud being the outlier.
Well, and they also have Rogue itself on there.
Stoneshard seems much more classic Roguelike to me than lite.
I unabashedly consider it a like and categorize it that way in steam. But going by the Berlin checklist, it is more a lite.
But it should be the gold standard for all likes at this point
I think the only items it’s violating are being non-modal (which is violated all the time genre defining Roguelikes) and by not being ASCII (ditto, pretty much every genre defining roguelike has a tileset these days).
Hades and FTL are rougelites. You’re expected to do them in one sitting, they have randomly generated levels and minor progression carrying over playthroughs. Vampire Survivor is an odd one out that’s just plainly not a roguelite.
If they’re interpretting ‘roguelite’ as single-session games with meta-progression between runs, then VS qualifies. I wouldn’t have called it a roguelite personally, but I can at least see where they got it from.
VS has static levels and every enemy wave is predefined. On that merit alone it can’t be a roguelike/roguelite.
I think it’s more a top down shoot-em-up.
Llike alien breed, chaos engine, or even asteroids for that matterI guess the best approach is to not limit yourself to just one label. Games like Enter the Gungeon, Nuclear Throne (or even Binding of Issac for that matter) are roguelite top down shooters. Spelunky is a roguelite platformer, FTL is a roguelite tactics game.
[warning: weird and unnecessary microgenre rambling ahead]
And don’t get me started on metroidvanias. Dead Cells is a metroidvania roguelite. Dark Souls is a metroidvania too, but also a souls-like. Technically all souls-likes are metroidvanias. Vampire Survivor-likes or whatever we are going to call them are probably going to branch out mechanically too, if they didn’t already.
I think I’ve seen VS (and games like it) called “bullet-heaven” since they’re kind of the opposite of bullet-hell in a way. I like that, since imo VS-type games are essentially a new genre separate from rogue-lites.
What is Vampire Survivors lacking that would more firmly define it as a roguelike? Weapon pickups are randomized, each run is short but there is meta progression as you play. I’m not disagreeing I’m just not sure what the difference really is when compared to something like Hades.
Edit: Saw another comment referencing the lack of level randomization so that makes sense.
I’m not really sure how they are defining terms, but to me the reason vampire survivors shouldn’t be on the list is the live until x time gameplay. A rougelite or rougelike game should have a more definite win condition.
Noita is the one I keep coming back to. It’s like if the powder game was a roguelite with wizards and monsters.
Noita is just fantastic. It’s mind-blowing to realize for the first time just how expansive the game is. Like, a new player can definitely “win” the game without even seeing 95% of it, or knowing it’s there. It’s not until you get curious and brave and start exploring off the “easy” path that the sheer scope of it is apparent. (This was absolutely my experience.)
Noita should absolutely be on this list. The only explanation is that the author never played it.
That list was surprising light on Roguelikes.
Yup, I don´t even get why people would put those in the same list. Likes and lites are different genres and should be treated accordingly.
“Roguelite” isn’t really a genre, but a catchall for many types of game that use some elements that are common in roguelikes, but aren’t really roguelikes.
I mean, Nova Drift and Inscryption are roguelites, but they just aren’t in the same genre of game at all. One’s an action Asteroids-like game, and the other a turn-based deckbuilder.
Thank´s for he further specification. I fully agree with you, although it is often treated as a genre, roguelite is in fact a wide category of games from different genres, that only share certain similarities, like having permadeath, meta progression and so on.
What’s the difference? I’m not very familiar with them.
The answer to your question has been a subject of endless nerdy discussions for years. However I would answer it like this.
Rogue-like, loose definition: A defined genre of games, based on the classic game Rogue. Key features of such games are:
- dungeon crawling
- procedurally generated levels
- perma death
- turn-based gameplay
- grid-based movement
Rogue-like, strict definition: A defined genre of games, based on the classic game Rogue. Key features of such games are:
- dungeon crawling
- procedurally generated levels
- permadeath
- turn-based gameplay
- grid-based movement
- non modal (every action should be available to the player regardless of where they are in the game)
- complexity
- resource management
- hack and slash combat system
- exploration of areas and items
- typically such games are displayed in ASCII but it´s not a must
Roguelike, examples:
- Hack
- NetHack
- Ancient Domains of Mystery
- Moria
- Angband
- Tales of Maj’Eyal
- Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Rogue-lite, definition: Not a defined genre at all but just an umbrella term for games from any genre that share at least some of the following characteristics:
- permadeath (a must have)
- procedurally generated levels
- metaprogression
- short to medium length runs with victory conditions (a run can usually be finished in one sitting)
Roguelite, examples
- FTL - Faster Than Light
- Dead Cells
- Nova Drift
- Hades
- Children of Morta
- Nuclear Throne
- Nova Drift
- Enter the Gungeon
- The Binding of Isaac
Thank you, wow!
You are welcome. I enjoy to systematize things :)
That definition of rougelike seems overly strict to me. I’d say the main difference is a system that provides progression outside of runs to make future runs easier. That would more things like FTL, enter the gungeon, and binding of Issac into the rougelike category.
The answer to your question has been a subject of endless nerdy discussions for years. However I would answer it like this.
…
I like that FTL is in the list, it still is the kingpin of the roguelite genre imo. The list is way too short though, games I missed in the list the most are:
- Nova Drift (Incredibly well made Asteroids style action-roguelite space shooter)
- Nuclear Throne (Can´t make a best of roguelites list without this one if you want it to be complete)
- Children of Morta - Family Trails (One of the best action-rpg, dungeoncrawler roguelites out there, might even be the best if you ask me, especially in couch-coop)
- Steredenn (R-Type style action-roguelite space shooter)
- Sunless Sea (Sailship exploration roguelite in a dark, Cthulhu inspired scenario)
I’m one of the weirdos that liked Into The Breach more than FTL but I’ve been meaning to give FTL another shot.
I’m one of the weirdos that liked Into The Breach more than FTL
I enjoyed ITB, it´s a great game but FTL is my favourite game of all times, only game that comes close to FTL is Dead Cells imo.
I’ve been meaning to give FTL another shot.
Good for you! I very much recommend reading a few guides for a smooth start.
Shout out to Caves of Qud. Mobbin’ it right now and its like playing Fallout for the first time. I had to switch from classic I was dying so much.
I bought a USB numpad for my laptop to play Qud more efficiently lol
Latest update even makes it playable fully with a controller very nicely. I’ve been enjoying it on the Steam Deck. It’s surprising how well it works, considering the complexity of the game and its controls. (It was playable with a controller before that update, but they massively re-worked the default control scheme to be much better and more efficient.)
Seconded, I play on PC with a PS4 controller. Had to edit the keybinds file a bit, but very satisfied.
It’s not on the list because it’s not done yet, but oh boy! I’m kinda excited for Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode!
I can’t fucking wait. I’ll generate a world and just get lost in Legends mode for a while and never even start Fortress mode. I can’t wait until I can actually explore those areas.
I’m pretty new to DF, but the game continues to blow my mind. It’s unbelievable. So glad they added the pixel graphics, because the ASCII was the one thing holding me back before.
Anyone have some for Android? I’m playing Shattered Pixel Dungeon right now but haven’t found more
Edit: Dungeon not hero
Dicey dungeon is pretty good.
I’ve been playing Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. It’s a port from a PC version so the controls are a little clunky, but I find it a nice change of pace from SPD.
There’s a lot more complexity in the game and at least one tutorial says to focus on minotaur berserker to simply learning the game.
Man that game is so clunky. Can’t get it to work on my phone
It’s a seriously complicated UI but once you get used to it it’s pretty fun. The use of the default non-android keyboard will take a while to learn all of the key board shortcuts.
Also note that you don’t actually need to manually use arrow keys at all. You can use ‘o’ to auto search the map and Tab to auto advance to / attack enemies. You can also zoom in a bit with volume keys to make the map a little more visible
inhales: EEEEEEENTER THE GUNGEON!
I have that game on multiple platforms now and about 1500 hours total of game time.
Such a addictive fun game that keeps me going back for moar!
It looked and played great at first but I stopped when I realized the game kept automatically increasing the difficulty scaling with my progression. No thank you, as a player I want to be able to choose the difficulty setting of each run by myself and most roguelites let me do so.
This is just my private opinion, no reason to downvote, lol
It doesn’t scale, the game can be quite though in the beginning. First time I’ve beaten the game it took me hundreds of tries.
Now I can almost always complete every run with each character.
Late game enemies tend to have more health and cursed enemies have double or triple the health but it’s always the same.
There lots of weapons, passives and synergy’s that upgrades your damage.
If you unlock l something like the make shift Canon it can one shot bosses straight away.
The game does have a damage cap but with enough synergy’s and passives you can even break that.
Sorry, what I meant was not an overall difficulty increase but that when you unlock more weapons, the game will spawn harder enemies. After finding the difficulty to be fine at first, I noticed just after the first few runs few runs, that suddenly level 1 spawned much harder enemies then on the runs before. That equals a form of difficulty scaling up with unlocks. It has been known in the community for a long time too.
According to an old interview with the developers, each level has a selection of rooms to draw on, but they’re graded on difficulty and the map generator won’t place the harder ones until you’ve experienced the easier variations first, so you can gradually get used to the concepts. So the more you play, the more difficult rooms you’re unlocking. source
When I get into a game I want to get to know a certain difficulty setting before I turn it up. The sudden change in enemy types I experienced in EtG after the first runs made me feel like playing a game that arbitrarily changes difficulty without giving me a choice over it.
Of course my impression might be wrong. Do enemy types per level/area turn consistent later on in the game, or do they keep changing with unlocks?
Dwarf Fortress’s adventure mode is, by far, the best rougelike I’ve ever played. It’s too bad it isn’t yet in the Steam version. The classic version is still free on the website tho.
If you like roguelikes and want to ruin the scope of all other games for you for a while, try CDDA.
My gamer brain is in shambles.
Probably one of the greatest games of all times, i’m always amazed at the sheer amount of possibilities. I did a throwing-focused character last time, stripping car batteries for that sweet sweet acid, making molotov cocktails with gasoline and homemade grenades with commercial fertilizer. Next time maybe I’ll do a pirate living in a lighthouse, strapping cannons and guns to a boat. The vehicule building is out of this world, so much fun…
Isn’t Project Zomboid pretty much CDDA but with graphics?
CDDA is way more in depth mechanically than PZ still.
That sounds pretty crazy!
Backpack Hero is my latest and greatest. Too addictive, if you like inventory management as the main highlight (not simply as a side necessity). Depending on how you place items into your, expanding, bag, rotating and reorganizing them as you go, determines how bonuses will be applied to the other items in your bag, as you battle your way through short-medium dungeons, visiting your home hub after each trip. It can still get tricky with the management, and it does suck your time, at least for me, but…too much fun!
I keep hoping that one comes to Android. It would be perfect for me beside Peglin and Slice & Dice.
Great list! Saved.
The fact that it’s missing Noita is criminal though.
deleted by creator
I’m playing Irarus, lord of the dead lately. It’s very similar to darkest dungeon, but easier.
Thea (1 and 2) is noticeable for being a 4x roguelite. It’s also the slave mythology, so quite original in that regard.
