I mean yes there is the command to cover yourself in the quran, [24:31] for example (“… And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornment…”).
Still, the idea of women generally being forced to wear it by their family/social circle is wrong.
There is over 14300 years debate material about if this specific order to a time where women were targeted because who the were, or a general islamic rule.
Regardless it is never, telling man what and what not to wear, but always telling women what and what not to wear.
If the really care about Muslims women being forced to wear it, the law should be:
if you force female to wear or not wear anything then you go to prison. Then that would aolve the problem and gave people the freedom to wear or not wear religious symbols.
Ah where did this debate take place with ehich people? AFAIK all 4 sunni schools are unanimous in their intepretation, that people have to cover their bodies.
It is also very much telling men what and what not to wear. The specific body parts that have to be covered differ from school to school, for women and for men, but every muslim scholar says that every human has to cover certain parts of their body from the gaze of other people.
Well this is factually not true as Islamic law prescribes men dress modestly but at least cover themselves from at **least their belly buttons to their knees. ** If the shorts get too short men do get called out for it.
Furthermore you are insinuating that a woman cannot, of her own free will, choose to wear a headscarf. So you the big important male must decide it for her. Which is not very feminist of you.
How many women wearing hijab do you actually know, to come to the conclusion they would all get beaten and forced to wear it?
Because from the women i know none of them is forced to do so. And given that noone is around that could force them, as they are expats and they are exposed to plenty women not wearing hijab, both nin religious and muslim, i am certain that they choose to wear hijab on their own accord.
I bet the male dominated and generally oppressive culture behind it has nothing to do with their willingness, out of their own volition, to decide to wear it.
Next time i’ll see her i’ll ask the researcher with a Phd in physics who lived in western countries since 15 years, if she is too stupid to realize the difference between the village she grew up in and the great European countries were millions of liberators like you are waiting to liberate her by forbidding her to wear a hijab at work.
I know enough women who were forced to wear hijab by their families and most of them nowadays have gotten away from their families and havent spoken to their families in years. Also one of the families tried to lure their daughter to Iran and another family were stopped at the airport after one of the women told border police that she was at the airport against her will.
The free will of women wearing the hijab comes from fear of gOd and social pressure of being impure. No person on its right mind would choose to wear it.
I for sure would prefer if women wouldn’t be forced to wear it. But lets be realistic: banning it doesn’t make things better, only worse. These women won’t stop wearing a hijab, they will just stop going outside. And now you made the situation even worse for them.
Obviously, the ones who view it as a form of repression, would have already not been wearing headgarb in EU. The ones that do probably think different.
After all it’s not as if everyone belonging to one religion is viewing it in the same way.
thats bad, but still not as bad as the government responding with mandates on what women are or are not allowed to wear, nor is this an answer to the problem
like, how do you reckon this is going to pan out? you reckon women who actually are coerced into covering up are going to take it off when they go to public buildings (including schools), or do you reckon the men in their life just wont let them go to public buildings (including schools) anymore?
the right either has not thought about this law or is completely disingenuous about why they support it
Then wouldn’t they be against Islam forcing women to wear the hijab??
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The “culture” is religious though, like we can’t pretend it’s a social thing, absent religious doctrine.
I mean yes there is the command to cover yourself in the quran, [24:31] for example (“… And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornment…”).
Still, the idea of women generally being forced to wear it by their family/social circle is wrong.
There is over 14300 years debate material about if this specific order to a time where women were targeted because who the were, or a general islamic rule.
Regardless it is never, telling man what and what not to wear, but always telling women what and what not to wear.
If the really care about Muslims women being forced to wear it, the law should be:
Ah where did this debate take place with ehich people? AFAIK all 4 sunni schools are unanimous in their intepretation, that people have to cover their bodies.
It is also very much telling men what and what not to wear. The specific body parts that have to be covered differ from school to school, for women and for men, but every muslim scholar says that every human has to cover certain parts of their body from the gaze of other people.
Well this is factually not true as Islamic law prescribes men dress modestly but at least cover themselves from at **least their belly buttons to their knees. ** If the shorts get too short men do get called out for it.
Furthermore you are insinuating that a woman cannot, of her own free will, choose to wear a headscarf. So you the big important male must decide it for her. Which is not very feminist of you.
Yeah if you don’t wear it you get beaten… Totally not forced.
How many women wearing hijab do you actually know, to come to the conclusion they would all get beaten and forced to wear it?
Because from the women i know none of them is forced to do so. And given that noone is around that could force them, as they are expats and they are exposed to plenty women not wearing hijab, both nin religious and muslim, i am certain that they choose to wear hijab on their own accord.
I bet the male dominated and generally oppressive culture behind it has nothing to do with their willingness, out of their own volition, to decide to wear it.
Nothing at all.
Next time i’ll see her i’ll ask the researcher with a Phd in physics who lived in western countries since 15 years, if she is too stupid to realize the difference between the village she grew up in and the great European countries were millions of liberators like you are waiting to liberate her by forbidding her to wear a hijab at work.
You do that
I know enough women who were forced to wear hijab by their families and most of them nowadays have gotten away from their families and havent spoken to their families in years. Also one of the families tried to lure their daughter to Iran and another family were stopped at the airport after one of the women told border police that she was at the airport against her will.
A lot of women are totally forced to wear hijab.
The free will of women wearing the hijab comes from fear of gOd and social pressure of being impure. No person on its right mind would choose to wear it.
I for sure would prefer if women wouldn’t be forced to wear it. But lets be realistic: banning it doesn’t make things better, only worse. These women won’t stop wearing a hijab, they will just stop going outside. And now you made the situation even worse for them.
A group of iranian college students visited my town in the summer.
None of the girls used any sort of head cover and at some that came as a topic.
Even in Iran, as much as they can, every woman goes without it, unless the religious police is somewhere nearby.
The general, widespread view is that it is a form of repression and nothing else, yet their government/religious authority enforces it.
Although unpopular and understood as fascist, these decisions in european countries echoe impositions islamic countries make to foreigners.
Obviously, the ones who view it as a form of repression, would have already not been wearing headgarb in EU. The ones that do probably think different.
After all it’s not as if everyone belonging to one religion is viewing it in the same way.
I’m not going to even step into that debate.
thats bad, but still not as bad as the government responding with mandates on what women are or are not allowed to wear, nor is this an answer to the problem
like, how do you reckon this is going to pan out? you reckon women who actually are coerced into covering up are going to take it off when they go to public buildings (including schools), or do you reckon the men in their life just wont let them go to public buildings (including schools) anymore?
the right either has not thought about this law or is completely disingenuous about why they support it
Are they ever ingenuous?
This one is the most likely outcome.
They seem to be somewhat in denial about it. Which is quite sad
I think it would be hard to find a leftist who is not supporting the struggle of Iranians against being forced by law to wear a hijab.
And equally we are against Western governments forcing women to not wear a hijab.
Forcing people is the wrong doing. Easy to understand, isn’t it?
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