Worse. All games used to let you create your own servers to play with friends. That’s basically gone.
Not just that. People wonder why online games are so toxic, overly competitive and filled with cheaters. Matchmaking is the reason.
You don’t have to be nice because chances are you’re never going to play with those people again. All other matchmade players are just glorified bots, they’re completely dehumanized. That means shitheads can act like shitheads without any repercussions. Compare that to community servers where the admin will ban you if you’re an asshole. You even end up making friends because the same people will visit the same server.
And what’s your purpose for playing when everyone you’re playing with are glorified bots? Well your focus turns on you which in turn means your main metric of fun becomes your own skill. Since you can directly measure your own skill you look a things like wins/losses and kdr. You start to focus on things that correlate to competitive play and if the matchmaking is skill-based the game actually pushes you into sweats as the goal is to get you to a statistical 50% winrate. Now compare that to community servers where you’re not pushed into sweats, the overall skill of players stays largely the same and because you’ll be playing with people you know there no need to focus on being the best you can be, you can just mess around with others.
And of course cheating is a huge issue, but again it’s one of those things where having an admin to vet sus players make a huge difference. The admin isn’t infallible but cheating is less of an issue if you’re playing with people you know.
But people would much rather give it all up and deal with toxicity, sweats and cheating because the server admin could be a badmin. But maybe I’m just old and am remembering the good old days when you could make friends playing on the same server.
Jesus. I hadn’t thought about it.
I never make friends in games these days. I just drone around and quit when I get tired of it. I don’t even like multiplayer anymore. This is why.
Back in Counter-Strike/CS: Source days I made a ton of real friends. I knew what was going on in their lives. I congratulated them when they got married and had kids.
My clan server was always full of regulars just laughing and telling jokes and making changes to the server to see what worked for us. We had it perfect. Vote for knife fights, fun sounds like “gotchya bitch” for a knife kill. We built it together and we all stumbled into the server by accident and it just fit who were so we stayed. We had a rotation of maps that we all agreed on.
They’re still on my friends list. Last online 11 years ago, 7 years ago, 13 years ago, 12 years ago.
Damn, looking at that hurt a little bit.
It’s sad just how fast time goes. I have no idea where they are now or what they’re doing. That sucks.
The last time I talked to the one dude he had overdosed on heroin and was trying to get his life together. He might not even be alive anymore.
For nearly 5 years I hung out with those dudes every night.
I meet people now that I could see myself being friends with, but there’s no incentive to talk to them again. Random lobby, play game, the end.
I was hoping GO (now 2) would have an active user base in the servers. Nope. No gungame, no endless custom maps, no fun sounds, just base shit.
As sad as it was, I’m glad you made me think about this tonight.
Spot on!
Sometimes even cheaters could be dealt with without an admin in those days. Servers would have fun game settings and odd maps that would break cheating gameplay.
My brother and I often played CS in the same room, on opposing teams because we didn’t like being cheated and didn’t want to be cheaters. We found an empty server with a sniping-only map. Made for great fun and someone joined in about 15 minutes later. They seemed really good, so we joined together to see if we could make it challenging. The new guy was just too good, so we decided to swap back and forth with the new guy to see if one of us could make a 1v2 miracle happen. That’s when we figured out he was impossibly aim hacking. Bummer, our fun game was toasted.
Then we realized the map settings had friendly fire on and a 5 second start delay. Aim hacks don’t target your own teammates. A perfect trap was available: we’d headshot TK the cheater at game start and then 1v1 each other. The cheater tried swapping to the other team only to find my brother using the same TK tactic. Our cheating friend found himself without a chance to grift. Needless to say, he didn’t hang around for long.
Holy fuck I miss community servers
I posted this above, but I really want to emphasize the point. The is not new, it’s not rare, but we need to demand it and be angry when we don’t get it. Dedicated servers should be the norm.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dedicated_Servers_List
I miss the days of opening Steam and being able to search a million servers to find the specific niche type of game I wanted in CS. Warcraft, custom maps, zombie… So fun
There’s people actively working on bringing those to cs2, but you wouldn’t know by the massive shitshow that the server browser is with thousands of redirects currently, which is why the community also built a server browser if you search CS2Browser you’ll find it, you can go back to enjoying it ^^
Zombie escape is the best 🏃♂️ 🧟♀️
I don’t doubt this this is generally the case, but most of the games I enjoy playing with friends offer their own servers. Which got me thinking about it, and they tend to be indie games.
So it’s not gone. Niche, perhaps.
it just reinforces the fact that the only games worth playing are indies and like 5 AAA ones
AKA dedicated servers. They exist now for games now, but are… well not rare, but very specific. Factorio has a dedicated server. Ark has a dedicated server. Valheim, Space Engineers (windows only), Satisfactory, to name a few that I’ve dealt with myself. Demand them. Punish devs who don’t accommodate them with your wallets. No user dedicated servers, no purchase. Fuck you and the distributed info-scraping service you rode in on.
I have a list of games I will never buy because they have succumbed to the lure of hosted services with no user control, no dedicated server support. Those devs want control; they want to control you, how you play and how you interact with those you play with.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dedicated_Servers_List
Just posting this here. No Reason.
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Tinnitus?
Not to be confused with EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Translation for Latin languages: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Stop making me more jealous.
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Are we really going to convince ourselves now that Sony wouldn’t have introduced a subscription at some point? Realistically the only reason Microsoft where the ones to popularise it is because Sony didn’t get there first
Meanwhile Nintendo was just waiting in the corner so they didn’t have to be the first to try and start charging for their incredibly shitty p2p serverless online service while changing literally nothing
We can at least be relatively sure Nintendo wouldn’t have been first because they were so fucking terrified of online consoles that they almost had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it at all
Nostradamus much?
Just don’t buy that expensive crap. If people where better at math they would buy PCs instead and we wouldn’t have any exclusives.
Steam deck is the best option for cost/value
Damn I want that limited oled though haha.
I probably won’t be getting it.
I’m finding it hard to believe that you can get PS5-tier graphics and performance from a $450 PC…do you have a build you can recommend?
You get cheaper games, no subscription for online play, mods, replaceable parts, and an actual computer that can do literally anything you program it to though. Also a PS5 is at the very least $550 where I live
A PC being able to do literally anything doesn’t factor in at all imo. Most people buying consoles don’t want it to do anything but play games
People with consoles don’t also have computers?
You don’t need a beast to run Word/Excel/YouTube
Psst… The ps5 has a monthly/annual cost you’re conveniently forgetting about, while unfortunately proving right the OC you replied to
to add on to what you said: At least 80$ per year currently for PS+ essentials(online only basically). if you calculate that out 5 years (i’m gonna give the ps5 the benefit of the doubt here and assume you want to upgrade after that time) thats another 400$ on top of the 450$ you paid for the console. i could build a very well kitted out PC that blows the PS5 out of the water for 850$ and it would last longer and have an upgrade path that could extend its life an additional couple years. this doesn’t even factor in the overall cost savings of games being generally less expensive on PC.
My PC was about $800 altogether when I built it back a month before the COVID lockdowns. It uses a 1660 Super which doesn’t support DLSS or ray tracing; every game that’s on both PC and PS5 looks exactly the same. Even with ray tracing on the PS5 and I am literally comparing them side by side on identical displays.
Yep, and you totally wouldn’t put any upgrades in your $850 PC over the course of that 5 years.
On the other hand, PC is much easier to break and harder to diagnose than a console (says a guy who never had a console)
If all you do on the pc is play games(as you would on a console) it won’t break (usually) but that’s what debug lights are for diagnosis made easy and then you rma the broken part or buy a new part if the ps5 breaks its basically landfill and you’re out another 450 (if your console is not still under warranty). Forgive my bad grammar, one the alcohol starts the grammar stops
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I’m guessing a PS5-tier PC is about 800-900 and the PlayStation subscription is $80/year so you’d break even at 5 years or so.
I have a more powerful PC and I haven’t owned any consoles since the Wii. I just wanted to see if you could build a comparable one for $450 nowadays
I picked up a 2080 super, ryzen 3600, motherboard, and 32 gigabytes of RAM 1.5 years ago for under $400 used. I already case, PSU, and SSDs so close to your premise.
You’re overestimating the power of a PS5. Its GPU is roughly around an RX 6600XT which can be found for ~$200. You could build a full system with it for around $600 and you’d break even in just over 2 years.
All good. I was just making fun since it’s a typical gotcha question that gets asked. I’d say it’s totally fair to get a console if that’s what you want.
That said, the math’s possibly worse when you realize some people bought the pro version of the PS4 just 3-4 yrs after buying the original.
You have to factor in the cost of the online subscription over the life of the console when pricing out a comparable PC. That is what he meant by “better at math”.
$80/year for 5 years is $400 but how much more is the comparable PC than a PS5?
You can’t, but getting in an argument with the master race nuts is a fool’s errand.
You can use a PC for other things, I’d need a full desktop PC anyways. Also games are generally cheaper and you don’t have to pay for online play. Once you bought a game, you can very likely still play it in 10 years on a totally different machine.
That being said, there are plenty of situations where a console is the better choice: they’re cheap to buy, easy to use, generally have less software problems, they have cool suspension features etc.
I’m a PC-only player but for reasons 95% of console players don’t care about. Playing on console just makes a lot more sense for some people
This is another case of YMMV because you have to be thrifty. You can walk away from a microcenter with everything but the GPU for that price. (The 5600x3D bundle is a really good option but I understand most people can’t get to a microcenter in person).
If you’re thrifty, you can get your hands on something like a Radeon 5700xt for between 80-120$ (check Ali Express).
On the AliExpress note, even though I recommend a GPU, I can tell you that I do not recommend any of these Chinese motherboards from AliExpress unless you’re prepared to burn money. You can get them to work for very cheap but they are made out of ewaste and there is always something wrong with them (I’ve bought a few).
This will get you into the sub 800$ tier Gaming PC. At that point I would recommend installing a Linux OS like ChimeraOS. This will give you the total functionality of a steam Deck and that console-like experience.
If you’re looking for some more pre-assembled, morefine and minisforum make small PCs that come with a discrete radeon 6600m. This will get you into a PC that will be the size of a console but will definitely put you above 800$.
yes, truly that is all that matters. God forbid you have to turn off godrays
Ok then why bother with a PC? Just play SNES
last i checked a SNES can’t play youtube videos? The whole point of PC is that you can run anything, you’re not limited to only one platform’s media.
That’s the goalposts moving. We’re discussing gaming devices and I asked for a PC that performs as well as a PS5 for the price and you implied graphics don’t matter…so…why are you talking about YouTube
This is the story of non-free software. Software was mostly given and traded openly until good 'ol Bill Gates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists
Gates had a point. Everyone was spending thousands on hardware but wouldn’t spend a little more for Basic. There were free options, they weren’t poor ( computer hardware was very expensive in the 70’s), but everyone was using Basic without buying it.
It’s like today where people will spend thousands for a gaming PC, then complain about Windows when they should be using Linux.
But it’s literally reversed now? Windows is the only consumer-grade paid OS and it’s also the worst consumer-grade OS.
Bill Gates promised higher software quality and then delivered an OS, which has pretty much as its only quality that other software targets it.
Laughs in PC.
I enjoy PC gaming as much as anyone but the simple fact is you can’t do what a Series S does for $250 with a $250 PC. Plus with gamepass the math doesn’t even need a napkin. It’s simply the best deal in gaming right now, whether you’re paying for online play or not.
you can’t do what a Series S does for $250 with a $250 PC. Plus with gamepass the math doesn’t even need a napkin. It’s simply the best deal in gaming right now, whether you’re paying for online play or not.
The consoles themselves are often sold at a loss because they know they will make that money back on games. Which is a better value proposition is arguable, especially once you factor in how much more you’ll be paying per game relative to steam sales, the ability of PCs to do things other than gaming, and the inevitable obsolescence of consoles. I can still play games on a modern PC from when steam was new.
Microsoft also offers a game pass for PC, but I’d rather own my games.Consoles have sales as well and you can boot other OS’s onto a series S with minimum effort. They are fantastic emulation machines and are very easy to just turn into a daily driver computer if you really want to
This is why I exclusively play indie offline games. Also because my PC is getting old lol.
Funny, I remember the playstation’s online being dog shit and offline a ton.
I thought WoW, RuneScape and the like pioneered online subscriptions?
They were not the first, either. But definitely the biggest in their day.
Ultima Online predates those too.
Everquest had a subscription. I think subscription models were common back then for being a member of a forum or getting a magazine or news letter.
I haven’t played multiplayer since the PS3 days, before Sony joined the greed bleed
Is the steam deck a console?
No, it’s a handheld PC.
To be fair, does that make a ps3 running Linux a desktop PC?
“PC” historically refers to devices that are “IBM PC” compatible, although nowadays that mostly means machines with x86 chips… except that powerful ARM desktops, laptops, and servers are becoming a thing too so that’s not accurate either. Plus there’s that whole “Mac vs PC” ad which also makes the term more confusing.
But even going by the recent historical usage, I’d say the Steam Deck qualifies since it has an x86 chip, whereas the PS3 has a weird custom PowerPC cpu (which, ironically, was made by IBM).
really at this point PC just means it’s not locked down to a highly specific software source and lets you change the OS
All consoles are computers, in the sense that their chips are turing-complete
Nobody has really come up with a computer that can only run things you like and none of the things you don’t.
They’re just computers locked down by digital rights management, opaque operating systems, or other protection measures.
For the purposes of this conversation I would say yes
Then again I would count the steam deck more as a console than a PC in most scenarios
I count it as a portable mini-PC because the games I’m playing on it are the same I own on PC, using the same account…
I guess that depends on your definition, but really I’d lump it into handheld computer, I’ve owned several, such as the GPD Win series
You can install desktop Linux software on it with no need to perform any types of “jailbreak” so while steam os is a proprietary skin for Linux, its not really locked down the way traditional brick consoles are.
Console doesn’t have a hard definition, so anyone could come through and make a case for why it is.
Edit: you can see the people replying after me all have different definitions and standards for the word, it’s arbitrary really
It runs desktop Linux natively, steam button, power, switch to desktop.
So was a launch ps3 not a console because you could install linux as an “OtherOS” before sony revoked thr feature?
Again, it’s a loose definition and it’s pointless and purposefully contrarian to argue about it.
Yes. It’s a mass manufactured consumer product with gaming as it’s intended purpose
That’s a console.
Consoles typically lock the player into their ecosystem, though. You don’t have to use steam to play games on the deck.
They don’t have to though, that’s just what most consoles do.
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very difficult to jailbreak
Getting an Xbox into developer mode, booting retro arch, really whatever you want then doing literally whatever you want with it has never been easier. The 360 was far more difficult and continues to be difficult to hack and mod in meaningful ways. The series consoles you can crack open in like 30 minutes with an article and a YouTube video.
What’s the GP32?
What’s the NGage?
What’s the Ouya?
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What are they though?
Are they
?
Depends at what level you define ‘console’.
Is it a device purpose built for playing games? Yes.
Does it have its own bespoke gaming platform? No. It plays games and applications made for the x86 PC platform.
Steamdeck is more console than x86 PC is a platform. I get what you mean, but PS4 and PS5 are too technically x86 PCs. Most modern games’ tightly coupled target are actually APIs they are using.
It can be one click in a compiler to compile the game to ARM PC, but it’s a different story when you port your game engine to console, where you have to implement the same features using different APIs. (E.g. Raytracing, storing game data, connecting to profile, implementing multiplayer etc.).
In the example of SteamDeck, the platform is Win32 or Linux ABI compatible OS.
does it have its own bespoke gaming platform?
Sure steam doesn’t fit that definition exactly but I mean…it kind of serves the same purpose.
Reject modern gaming, return to quake 3 arena.
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I sleep like shit, but at least I’m happy with my PC.
Video games could have had a single version for the entire world which contains every localization that the user can freely choose between (you know, like every other software with an international market), but Nintendo popularized the geolocking model that other competitors also started using. (And no it’s not because it would take too much space, that might have been true in the ROM cartridge days but now most game cards are just overpriced proprietary SD cards with hundreds of gigabytes of storage, and it’s not like game studios are particularly conservative with file sizes nowadays.)
Phones also could have had removable batteries and could be disassembled, but Apple popularized the throw it in a dumpster and get a new one model that other competitors also started using.
The tech industry is especially brazen because two thirds of the users literally value convenience and “polish” above data ownership and device repair rights and literally anything else and the other third is just ignored and everyone calls them stuck in the past, paranoid, amish, etc.
I don’t think folks remember how truly shitty Nintendo‘s online service was when it was free. The fact is these companies will not put meaningful resources into them unless they are directly generating revenue. I hate it, but that’s reality.
…It’s improved? Doesn’t it still handle communication weirdly (needing a separate app for voice chat), or is that on a game-by-game basis?
It was awful prior. The netcode was terrible, MP was a joke on virtually every game.
I really don’t see how this is any better, they are using the same peer to peer netcode they always have. Maybe the general quality of Internet has gone up, but there is nothing I can point to that Nintendo has fundamentally changed between previous free MP and NSO, except giving some ROMS and DLC occasionally. Smash bros is still a lag fest with wireless players, splatoon still delays collision detection, Mario kart still has weird rubber banding and desync… they just slapped a price tag on it.
It’s still shitty even now that you pay for it. The free retro emulation doesn’t offset the connection issues and massive lag, nor does it excuse the god awful store.
I still think they’re 10 years behind but dude it was unplayable prior.
I played online on the Wii quite a lot, it was fine. Smash bros a ton, 007 Golden Eye and The Conduit, and good old MH Tri.
Literally a thousand hours in that last one alone most of which was spend online. Did you not use Ethernet? Wi-Fi was shitty for sure, because everybody had shitty wi-fi back then. (I’m also not saying it was amazing, but it was free and serviceable)
