SILICON VALLEY— A panel of experts, including AI engineers, behavioral scientists, and child healthcare specialists, gathered today to discuss whether the Redditor you’re actively arguing…
Very fitting headline in a day and age where I’m constantly seeing people advocating for giving trump the Whitehouse and finishing the country off because anything less would be SuPpOrTiNg GeNoCiDe. As if the move to help Palestinians would be to elect Trump. These people are very stupid children, bots, or Russian paid actors. Impossible to know which.
You’re exactly right, and you proved your own point with this comment thread. It’s really sad that people can’t be polite and think they have to resort to ad hominem crap.
Sounds overzealous to me. Wrapped up in that is the assumption that associating a person with Putin is said as just a way to hurt feelings, rather than a perhaps-assuming claim… before yesterday, it never once occurred to me that a mod would have an issue with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way. Might as well start banning people for telling each other they’re wrong.
Wrapped up in that is the assumption that associating a person with Putin is said as just a way to hurt feelings, rather than a perhaps-assuming claim… before yesterday, it never once occurred to me that a mod would have an issue with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way. Might as well start banning people for telling each other they’re wrong.
So, if I were to hit you with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way, but just so happens to conveniently dismiss anything you said, and anything you might say in response, you wouldn’t consider that a personal attack?
Fine by me: How much is Putin paying you to sow bad-faith arguments among non-republicans?
I am frequently hit with much worse “attacks” than this and I laugh at and ignore the vast majority of them. Even when someone’s particularly good at being personally insulting (this example is NOT) I rarely get hurt by it.
Ah, so you do, in fact, recognize it as an attack, a personally insulting one, with the intention “to hurt feelings”, and not a “perhaps-assuming claim” you present it when trying to justify not getting banned for being an asshole.
recognize it as an attack, a personally insulting one, with the intention “to hurt feelings”,
Precisely what I strongly dispute. It’s only an insult if you have no idea what an actual insult is.
trying to justify not getting banned for being an asshole.
Kinda ironic that you did not even read the conversation, and you get to call me an asshole in the same breath as telling me I was insulting, which again since you didn’t read the conversation you’re pulling that assumption straight from your rectum anyhow.
Annnnd I was banned from politics on lemmy.world. this is actually kind of messed up. I don’t think I said anything particularly offensive even. It seems like it was more about my message.
I was banned from all of . world for shit posting in a running group by saying I’m too fat to run. The group crossed my feed when I was sorting by all and I said it just for shits and giggles.
That got me banned but when I went on the discord and asked about this another mod came along and reversed it.
The “automod” just removed 5 of my comments for complete bullshit reasons, but it honestly does seem like they did it in response to the exact same issue – I claimed someone is a russian actor. I’m now wondering who runs lemmy.world, and what exact agenda they have.
Despite it claiming “automod” there were human-written reasons, one of which was “Provide evidence of shilling or this is personal insult.”
No, they were reported multiple times, and I removed them by hand, no bots were involved.
Like I said in the modlog, if you have actual evidence of botting, let’s see it, otherwise, you are intentionally antagonizing people, and I can’t let you do that.
It seems like you assume I know a lot of things I either don’t know or forgot about. Forgot about the modlog, still even looking there, it’s missing detail, such as someone to message to ask a question. Also, … “abelist insults”, really? I believe I wrote a couple things like “what is wrong with your brain?” which would not be taken as seriously by anyone I know.
I did see the message about providing evidence of shilling… I am just curious what would constitute such evidence? In my experience you could almost never prove it, and ironically that is what the parent post above is literally about.
It seems like you assume I know a lot of things I either don’t know or forgot about.
You admit that you have no evidence at all, and you are going around calling people who disagree with you “Russian bots”?
Suspicious voting patterns, repetitive spam messages, all of these would constitute as evidence, and our admins ban these spam bots usually within minutes.
"what is wrong with your brain?” which would not be taken as seriously by anyone I know.
You are going around and calling people stupid," it’s just a joke bro" is not going to cut it. Ironic prejudice is still prejudice.
I don’t want to argue with you more. Take the next 3 days off, talk about something else, think about how you can contribute positively before you come back.
A child often behaves like an LLM-based bot - a child too often will imitate proper argumentation in style, but say junk, because they want to “win” an argument and not be correct. I would do that when I was a child.
I mean, adults do that too all the time, so the only way to distinguish bots from people is to communicate with people you know are real or others know are real.
I love how the old way of using the Web would solve this problem automatically, and P2P solutions with webs of trust too, but the majority of people uses the architecture most advantageous to bots.
Almost as if you needed bots to attract the majority of people. They wouldn’t come to the web otherwise, for just real people and real communities. It’s like a hunter’s whistle. Or like porn.
I know some people that certainly seem to think I have to like him to vote for him. They genuinely think I’m going to sit out an election that could have a wannabe dictator on the ballot.
You know who thinks we have to idolize a guy to let him run our country? Russians and bots made by Russians… it’s literally all they’ve ever known. After that, people who fall for propaganda.
This guy is an irl friend of an irl friend. He gets absolutely mental if you post a quote or news article about something Biden did that unpopular. Recently, I posted about how I’m depressed about the next election and he went into a spiel about how it’s our civic duty to vote and how Biden is the only thing keeping use from falling into a dictatorship. I mean, sure, but I’m still depressed that he’s our best option. Honestly, the way he talks about Biden reminds me of Trump supporters. Ever hear someone call Biden “Uncle Joe” unironically?
Millions are supposed to swallow their Principles and vote for this one man, when the by far simplest, easiest solution to “keep Trump out” is for this single man to change his actions.
Clearly for Joe Biden keeping Trump out is secondary to “I should be able to do whatever I want”, the very opposite of “I am but the elected representative of the will of the voters”.
The theory of Representative Democracy is for those elected to represent those who voted for them.
However the reality is indeed different, the less democratic the country the worse. I’m just pointing out the US is already de facto way down towards the Dictatorship side of things when the current POTUS prefers to keep materially supporting a racist genocidal massacre over doing what millions of those who voted for him demand as a question of Principle (we’re not talking about disagreements over what to do for the Economy here, we’re talking about outright support with bombs to those committing what is already the largest genocide of the century).
I wonder if there trully is any significant distance between Biden and Trump in terms of democratic principles. Maybe their loudness and the openness of the methods they use to subvert Democracy is their main difference in this, not their spirit as (non-)representatives of their voters, since they both behave as masters whose will is more important than everything else including some of the most important things for those who elected them: they behave as kings or dictators, not as elected representatives.
“I wonder if there trully is any significant distance between Biden and Trump in terms of democratic principles.”
Are you serious? What a completely naive and ignorant take. Gee, I wonder if there’s much difference between Biden and a man who LITERALLY tried to overthrow the government and has stated, quite clearly, his desire to be a dictator.
When in a Circus, the out of control clown might be the one getting your attention but its the quiet pickpockets working the crowd that are doing most of the damage.
Trump and Biden both couldn’t care less about the what the people who voted for them want, it’s just that one is a loudmouth and uses overt means to try to subvert Democracy whilst the other one is quieter and does his subversion of Democracy via campaign contributions, appeals to negative vote, not fullfilling that which he promises in the campaign trail undemocratic primaries and so on.
Ultimatelly in both cases those who vote for either of them end up not being represented at all.
One could say that Trump-style subversion of Democracy has actually been less successful that the style practiced by Biden, mainly because Trump is so spectacularly incompetent. In fact plenty of less loud and more sneaky Republicans who practice the same style as Biden are probably much more dangerous.
Whilst I myself would also tend to see Trump as the most dangerous, in light of just how confident Biden is that he can do whatever he wants without being punished by voters, I’m starting to ponder on “what does he know which I don’t” and if I and most people haven’t been foolled into seeing the loudmouth as much more dangerous when the quiet one is also dangerous.
Granted, I’m an outsider, don’t even live in the US, and don’t really have to make a choice between swallowing my principles and vote for the quieter Nazi-lover to keep out the loud Nazi-lover or not vote at all.
The closest I’ve been to that situation was when I lived in the UK, were I ended up joining the Greenparty - even though I could only vote in Local and EU elections and it’s a very small party - and just helped them out with campaigning.
But if biden loses I’m going to blame HIM, not the voters. We all know how dangerous trump is. If biden and other mainstream dems actually believed it they’d be pushing boundaries like never before. But they’re not. They’re actually moving further right to try and appease “centrists” which is pretty much what the social democrats did in Germany in the 30s and we see how well that worked out. They should be promoting the organizing of militias in case trump supporters try to fuck around and seize power again if democracy really is on the line.
what about their resumes? what have either candidates done that has benefited your life enough directly that demands your vote?
please name one thing biden has done that your life now is better for
was it the cannabis reforms he promised and flip flopped on with prosecutor harris? was it the police reforms he promised? was it defending our human rights? was it the immigration policies he talked up that now mirror republican strategies? or is that stagnant paycheck after biden promised a higher minimum wage of $15 which is still too low due to the inflation?
forgot he can not do anything because republicans and republicans never can do anything either because democrats
through policies and laws crafted and put in place by politicians like biden, trump, obama, and the list goes on my right to vote was taken so not like have a say in this election anyways
Anyone who sites “genocide” and then, in the same breath, supports Trump is either a shill, a fool, or both. There is no metric you can look at and say Trump is better,
Very fitting headline in a day and age where I’m constantly seeing people advocating for giving trump the Whitehouse and finishing the country off because anything less would be SuPpOrTiNg GeNoCiDe. As if the move to help Palestinians would be to elect Trump. These people are very stupid children, bots, or Russian paid actors. Impossible to know which.
I got into that exact argument about Biden. Eventually I called the person a Putin puppet and got my post deleted by a Lemmy.world mod.
So, you got into an argument, turned to insults, and moderation kicked in. Sounds like everything is working OK.
You’re exactly right, and you proved your own point with this comment thread. It’s really sad that people can’t be polite and think they have to resort to ad hominem crap.
Sounds overzealous to me. Wrapped up in that is the assumption that associating a person with Putin is said as just a way to hurt feelings, rather than a perhaps-assuming claim… before yesterday, it never once occurred to me that a mod would have an issue with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way. Might as well start banning people for telling each other they’re wrong.
So, if I were to hit you with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way, but just so happens to conveniently dismiss anything you said, and anything you might say in response, you wouldn’t consider that a personal attack?
Fine by me: How much is Putin paying you to sow bad-faith arguments among non-republicans?
I am frequently hit with much worse “attacks” than this and I laugh at and ignore the vast majority of them. Even when someone’s particularly good at being personally insulting (this example is NOT) I rarely get hurt by it.
Ah, so you do, in fact, recognize it as an attack, a personally insulting one, with the intention “to hurt feelings”, and not a “perhaps-assuming claim” you present it when trying to justify not getting banned for being an asshole.
Precisely what I strongly dispute. It’s only an insult if you have no idea what an actual insult is.
Kinda ironic that you did not even read the conversation, and you get to call me an asshole in the same breath as telling me I was insulting, which again since you didn’t read the conversation you’re pulling that assumption straight from your rectum anyhow.
This is only an argument if you have no idea what an actual argument is.
Annnnd I was banned from politics on lemmy.world. this is actually kind of messed up. I don’t think I said anything particularly offensive even. It seems like it was more about my message.
I was banned from all of . world for shit posting in a running group by saying I’m too fat to run. The group crossed my feed when I was sorting by all and I said it just for shits and giggles.
That got me banned but when I went on the discord and asked about this another mod came along and reversed it.
Wow. It’s so concerning.
The “automod” just removed 5 of my comments for complete bullshit reasons, but it honestly does seem like they did it in response to the exact same issue – I claimed someone is a russian actor. I’m now wondering who runs lemmy.world, and what exact agenda they have.
Despite it claiming “automod” there were human-written reasons, one of which was “Provide evidence of shilling or this is personal insult.”
You do realize I read Lemmy right?
No, they were reported multiple times, and I removed them by hand, no bots were involved.
Like I said in the modlog, if you have actual evidence of botting, let’s see it, otherwise, you are intentionally antagonizing people, and I can’t let you do that.
deleted by creator
It seems like you assume I know a lot of things I either don’t know or forgot about. Forgot about the modlog, still even looking there, it’s missing detail, such as someone to message to ask a question. Also, … “abelist insults”, really? I believe I wrote a couple things like “what is wrong with your brain?” which would not be taken as seriously by anyone I know.
I did see the message about providing evidence of shilling… I am just curious what would constitute such evidence? In my experience you could almost never prove it, and ironically that is what the parent post above is literally about.
You admit that you have no evidence at all, and you are going around calling people who disagree with you “Russian bots”?
Suspicious voting patterns, repetitive spam messages, all of these would constitute as evidence, and our admins ban these spam bots usually within minutes.
You are going around and calling people stupid," it’s just a joke bro" is not going to cut it. Ironic prejudice is still prejudice.
I don’t want to argue with you more. Take the next 3 days off, talk about something else, think about how you can contribute positively before you come back.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
No I didn’t, to any of this.
Uh, wow. No prejudice involved.
News to me this was an argument as the first contradiction just occurred
A child often behaves like an LLM-based bot - a child too often will imitate proper argumentation in style, but say junk, because they want to “win” an argument and not be correct. I would do that when I was a child.
I mean, adults do that too all the time, so the only way to distinguish bots from people is to communicate with people you know are real or others know are real.
I love how the old way of using the Web would solve this problem automatically, and P2P solutions with webs of trust too, but the majority of people uses the architecture most advantageous to bots.
Almost as if you needed bots to attract the majority of people. They wouldn’t come to the web otherwise, for just real people and real communities. It’s like a hunter’s whistle. Or like porn.
What about unpaid russian actors?
Biden is assisting a genocide though. Will I vote for him in 2024? Most likely. I still fucking hate him though.
Nobody said we had to like him to vote for him.
I know some people that certainly seem to think I have to like him to vote for him. They genuinely think I’m going to sit out an election that could have a wannabe dictator on the ballot.
You know who thinks we have to idolize a guy to let him run our country? Russians and bots made by Russians… it’s literally all they’ve ever known. After that, people who fall for propaganda.
This guy is an irl friend of an irl friend. He gets absolutely mental if you post a quote or news article about something Biden did that unpopular. Recently, I posted about how I’m depressed about the next election and he went into a spiel about how it’s our civic duty to vote and how Biden is the only thing keeping use from falling into a dictatorship. I mean, sure, but I’m still depressed that he’s our best option. Honestly, the way he talks about Biden reminds me of Trump supporters. Ever hear someone call Biden “Uncle Joe” unironically?
Millions are supposed to swallow their Principles and vote for this one man, when the by far simplest, easiest solution to “keep Trump out” is for this single man to change his actions.
Clearly for Joe Biden keeping Trump out is secondary to “I should be able to do whatever I want”, the very opposite of “I am but the elected representative of the will of the voters”.
If you think democracy has ever been about the principles of millions, you’re missing its point.
The theory of Representative Democracy is for those elected to represent those who voted for them.
However the reality is indeed different, the less democratic the country the worse. I’m just pointing out the US is already de facto way down towards the Dictatorship side of things when the current POTUS prefers to keep materially supporting a racist genocidal massacre over doing what millions of those who voted for him demand as a question of Principle (we’re not talking about disagreements over what to do for the Economy here, we’re talking about outright support with bombs to those committing what is already the largest genocide of the century).
I wonder if there trully is any significant distance between Biden and Trump in terms of democratic principles. Maybe their loudness and the openness of the methods they use to subvert Democracy is their main difference in this, not their spirit as (non-)representatives of their voters, since they both behave as masters whose will is more important than everything else including some of the most important things for those who elected them: they behave as kings or dictators, not as elected representatives.
You tipped your hand there.
There are way more political positions in genuinelly Democratic countries than merelly 2.
If you assume that if I’m not for #A then I must be for #B, then you’re just betraying your profound ignorance of Politics under Democracy.
“I wonder if there trully is any significant distance between Biden and Trump in terms of democratic principles.”
Are you serious? What a completely naive and ignorant take. Gee, I wonder if there’s much difference between Biden and a man who LITERALLY tried to overthrow the government and has stated, quite clearly, his desire to be a dictator.
I don’t understand your “logic” at all here.
When in a Circus, the out of control clown might be the one getting your attention but its the quiet pickpockets working the crowd that are doing most of the damage.
Trump and Biden both couldn’t care less about the what the people who voted for them want, it’s just that one is a loudmouth and uses overt means to try to subvert Democracy whilst the other one is quieter and does his subversion of Democracy via campaign contributions, appeals to negative vote, not fullfilling that which he promises in the campaign trail undemocratic primaries and so on.
Ultimatelly in both cases those who vote for either of them end up not being represented at all.
One could say that Trump-style subversion of Democracy has actually been less successful that the style practiced by Biden, mainly because Trump is so spectacularly incompetent. In fact plenty of less loud and more sneaky Republicans who practice the same style as Biden are probably much more dangerous.
Whilst I myself would also tend to see Trump as the most dangerous, in light of just how confident Biden is that he can do whatever he wants without being punished by voters, I’m starting to ponder on “what does he know which I don’t” and if I and most people haven’t been foolled into seeing the loudmouth as much more dangerous when the quiet one is also dangerous.
Granted, I’m an outsider, don’t even live in the US, and don’t really have to make a choice between swallowing my principles and vote for the quieter Nazi-lover to keep out the loud Nazi-lover or not vote at all.
The closest I’ve been to that situation was when I lived in the UK, were I ended up joining the Greenparty - even though I could only vote in Local and EU elections and it’s a very small party - and just helped them out with campaigning.
I mean, that’s fine. I only have a problem with people who will watch the world burn under the guise of principles
But if biden loses I’m going to blame HIM, not the voters. We all know how dangerous trump is. If biden and other mainstream dems actually believed it they’d be pushing boundaries like never before. But they’re not. They’re actually moving further right to try and appease “centrists” which is pretty much what the social democrats did in Germany in the 30s and we see how well that worked out. They should be promoting the organizing of militias in case trump supporters try to fuck around and seize power again if democracy really is on the line.
It won’t matter whose fault it is when democracy in the United States has been snuffed out.
“democracy”
Right, a semblance of it beats none of it
Hey man, tell it to biden. He’s clearly not taking this seriously enough.
Example: A.
lemmy despite trying not to be like reddit, it’s still moderated by people that get off on the power trip exactly the same
deleted by creator
They don’t care that much.
Why am I unsurprised that its lemmy.world libs bringing the ‘everyone I don’t like is a russian bot’ line to the fediverse.
Hey. It’s only a problem if you’re actually wrong.
Nah, even if they are out to get you, paranoia is still paranoia.
vote biden because trump bad
what about their resumes? what have either candidates done that has benefited your life enough directly that demands your vote?
please name one thing biden has done that your life now is better for
was it the cannabis reforms he promised and flip flopped on with prosecutor harris? was it the police reforms he promised? was it defending our human rights? was it the immigration policies he talked up that now mirror republican strategies? or is that stagnant paycheck after biden promised a higher minimum wage of $15 which is still too low due to the inflation?
forgot he can not do anything because republicans and republicans never can do anything either because democrats
through policies and laws crafted and put in place by politicians like biden, trump, obama, and the list goes on my right to vote was taken so not like have a say in this election anyways
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true
Not that those links would be the metric to go by when voting, but they do not support your position as Biden’s stats are much better there.
I will not waste any more time on you so don’t bother replying
Yeah. I had to look at both twice to make sure and laughed a bit. Some people can site sources. But they can’t read em
Or just people with different opinions to yours
Anyone who sites “genocide” and then, in the same breath, supports Trump is either a shill, a fool, or both. There is no metric you can look at and say Trump is better,
To say the least