• AnonTwo@kbin.social
    1037·
    10 months ago

    I think Americans in general don’t see it as a difficult choice to support Ukraine

    Politicians find it difficult because Republicans are pro-russian, and both parties are heavily aligned with Israel. So Ukraines the only one really seeing any push back.

    • Scubus@sh.itjust.works
      247·
      10 months ago

      Fuck that, isreal is a terrorist state. Anyone voting for funding isreal is voting against human rights.

    • FrostKing@lemmy.world
      92·
      10 months ago

      Honestly surprised that I hear this so much. For context, I am not a Republican, so I’m not defending them, but every Republican I’ve talked to has been anti Russia to the max. They might disagree on the amount of money that we send Ukraine (“Why are we sending billions over there when we can’t even figure out our own country” comes up a lot) but I’ve never heard a single one say anything in the support of Russia. It’s so confusing when I hear people say conservatives are pro-Russia… Different ecosystems I guess

      • Metype @lemmy.worldEnglish
        71·
        10 months ago

        I do believe they were referring quite specifically to the politicians, since on every side it seems politicians are disconnected from their constituents and do things those constituents absolutely wouldn’t (this isn’t some bizarre both-sides argument btw, just general frustration at the state of things)

        • FrostKing@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          Ah, that would explain it. I have a bad habit of assuming people mean people, and I like ignoring that politicians exist :p

    • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
      243·
      10 months ago

      It was the Democrat president that bypassed congress twice to send munitions to Israel during it’s active genocidal campaign so no, it’s not Republicans.

      • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        62·
        10 months ago

        Also, Republicans want to send weapons and money to Israel and not to Ukraine, while Congressional/Biden admin Democrats want to do both. So with Republicans you get double the genocides.

          • zeppo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            24·
            10 months ago

            That’s not the point. I was saying that national Democratic politicians are not properly representing what their voters think on the Israel issue.

      • KoboldCoterieEnglish
        313·
        10 months ago

        I think the majority of Americans don’t really see a dilemma there.

          • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
            121·
            10 months ago

            It would work. Senator Sanders forced a vote to require the State department to report on Israel’s humanitarian violations or immediately withhold aid, and the Senate quickly voted 72-11 against the proposal. That is probably the most bi-partisan vote we’ve seen in decades. But don’t go thinking that the enormous American political machine actually represents the will of the American people. They represent corporate interests, and hardly even try to hide that anymore.

  • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
    133·
    10 months ago

    Well the leader of one side campaigned in 2016 on the promise of carpet bombing the Middle East and they side with Russia

  • Swuden@lemmy.world
    167·
    10 months ago

    I find it funny that Americans (esp. Republicans) who love to «win» at all things, would be fine to allow Russia to win against the west in Ukraine. I think if they decide to stay on their isolationist path, Lavrov’s propaganda from earlier in the week will come true, and the US will seize to be a superpower. «Greatest country in the world»? Starting to look pretty weak to me.

    • Wogi@lemmy.world
      18·
      10 months ago

      The US is speed running the Empire game. They blitzed through the early game, beat a super power, became the dominant military force in the world, dominated in culture, and are now seeing how fast they can decline before the entire country implodes on itself.

  • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zipEnglish
    189·
    10 months ago

    These two conflicts have a lot of points of views. In russia ukraine its a bit easier because russia attacked ukriane so its pretty clear that russia is the “evil”. But with israel and gaza a lot of people confuse palestinians with hamas and israeli people with the israeli government. Ad for why ukraine supports israel when they are much closer to gaza i think its because they really need the us and eu to help so they didnt even have an option.

    • wewbull@iusearchlinux.fyiEnglish
      72·
      10 months ago

      I think it’s more that people confuse the Israeli government with “the Jewish people”, when the truth is that they are very separate. The Israeli people are somewhere in the middle. There seems to be a bunch of them who are quite supportive of their government’s actions.

      • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zipEnglish
        32·
        10 months ago

        Yeah true. A lot of people overlook things like jewish voice for peace and people like Bernie Sanders.

  • S_204@lemm.ee
    27·
    10 months ago

    Not a tough choice, send aid to Israel, stop jihadists from spreading their terror through the West.

  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
    828·
    10 months ago

    Love to save ukrainian children by dragging the war on, making it deadlier and deadlier.

    As Obama said, “Russia will always have escalatory dominance in the region”

    • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.worksOP
      165·
      10 months ago

      A war with better armed Ukraine would be shorter.

      We could make Russian dominance in the region history, just like the myth of their military competence is history.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
        31·
        10 months ago

        A war with better armed Ukraine would be shorter.

        We could make Russian dominance in the region history, just like the myth of their military competence is history.

        The “west” is running out of stockpiled munitions at this point.

        As Obama said, Russia will always have escalatory dominance in Ukraine. The Biden administration is just dragging out a loss.

        • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.worksOP
          84·
          10 months ago

          That would have been a peace deal that would have meant further hostilities down the line a few years later.

          The main problem with the west is that they believe they can make a deal with Russia that they are going to honor. The truth is that Russia honors the deals when it suits them and breaks them the moment it’s useful. Any negotiation is and will always be seen as weakness from the Russian side.

          As their propagandist said “We are Russian. We want the world. All of it if possible.”

            • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.worksOP
              103·
              10 months ago

              The actual truth is that it’s NATO that’s been constantly expanding towards Russia. It’s also NATO that’s been invading and destroying countries since the end of USSR. Syria, Libya, and Yugoslavia being some prominent examples.

              False equivalence. Former USSR countries that joined NATO, did so to protect themselves from future Russian aggression. Like the one we now see in Ukraine. Intervention in Yugoslavia was to prevent atrocities and Syria and Libya had their own problems and dictatorships, which Russia tried to prop up and the West wanted to end.

              Meanwhile, Russia tried to resolve this situation diplomatically since 2008 with Minsk agreements that western leaders now openly admit were a delaying tactic by the west.

              Western leaders? Name them.

              The whole legal basis for the existence of state of Ukraine is predicated on Ukraine staying neutral and not joining military blocs.

              It is in fact the opposite. No neutral country stays that way for long when Russia wants it’s territory.

              Ukraine broke the very basis of this agreement when it tried to join NATO.

              Because Russia attacked them.

              Now, thanks to western “help”, Ukraine will lose far more territory than it would have if the deal was done last year, and it may even cease to exist as a state. I can’t wait for you to explain how this actually helps people of Ukraine.

              If the West had not helped, there would be no Ukraine either. We would be condemning them to a decade of guerilla warfare and oppression. Emboldened by his victory, Putin would look further west.

              Ukrainians now fight Russia, both sides are getting exhausted and it all depends on what help Ukraine gets. Your magical peace treaty would just mean Russia trying this again in 5 years or less.

              You could have used the same arguments to make peace with the Nazis in 1941 and the world would only be worse for it.

                • Justas🇱🇹@sh.itjust.worksOP
                  72·
                  10 months ago

                  No, Ukraine has been engaged in atrocities in Donbas since 2014 as even western media reported at the time.

                  Russian propaganda talking point.

                  If the west didn’t run a coup to overthrow a democratically elected government then there would’ve been no troubles in Ukraine. Period.

                  Euromaidan was not a coup.

                  That’s complete and utter nonsense, and even western media now admits this.

                  Cite sources for the first point and military strategy analysts for the second.

            • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
              53·
              10 months ago

              NATO is a defense agreement. I know I’m on a Russian-apologist instance, but you guys are huffing Russian glue every time you parrot the propaganda of NATO being a threat to Russia.

              By definition, NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia threatens to expand, full stop.