We Asked A.I. to Create the Joker. It Generated a Copyrighted Image.::Artists and researchers are exposing copyrighted material hidden within A.I. tools, raising fresh legal questions.

  • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    But where is the infringement?

    Do Training weights have the data? Are the servers copying said data on a mass scale, in a way that the original copyrighters don’t want or can’t control?

    • orclev@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Data is not copyrighted, only the image is. Furthermore you can not copyright a number, even though you could use a sufficiently large number to completely represent a specific image. There’s also the fact that copyright does not protect possession of works, only distribution of them. If I obtained a copyrighted work no matter the means chosen to do so, I’ve committed no crime so long as I don’t duplicate that work. This gets into a legal grey area around computers and the fundamental way they work, but it was already kind of fuzzy if you really think about it anyway. Does viewing a copyrighted image violate copyright? The visual data of that image has been copied into your brain. You have the memory of that image. If you have the talent you could even reproduce that copyrighted work so clearly a copy of it exists in your brain.

      • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        only distribution of them.

        Yeah. And the hard drives and networks that pass Midjourney’s network weights around?

        That’s distribution. Did Midjourney obtain a license from the artists to allow large numbers of “Joker” copyrighted data to be copied on a ton of servers in their data-center so that Midjourney can run? They’re clearly letting the public use this data.

        • orclev@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Because they’re not copying around images of Joker, they’re copying around a work derived from many many things including images of Joker. Copying a derived work does not violate the copyright of the work it was derived from. The wrinkle in this case is that you can extract something very similar to the original works back out of the derived work after the fact. It would be like if you could bake a cake, pass it around, and then down the line pull a whole egg back out of it. Maybe not the exact egg you started with, but one very similar to it. This is a situation completely unlike anything that’s come before it which is why it’s not actually covered by copyright. New laws will need to be drafted (or at a bare minimum legal judgements made) to decide how exactly this situation should be handled.

          • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            derived

            https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/derivative_work

            Copyrights allow their owners to decide how their works can be used, including creating new derivative works off of the original product. Derivative works can be created with the permission of the copyright owner or from works in the public domain. In order to receive copyright protection, a derivative work must add a sufficient amount of change to the original work.

            Are you just making shit up?

    • abhibeckert@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Do Training weights have the data?

      The answer to that question is extensively documented by thousands of research papers - it’s not up for debate.

    • Auli@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      There response well be we don’t know we can’t understand what its doing.

      • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        There response well be we don’t know we can’t understand what its doing.

        What the fuck is this kind of response? Its just a fucking neural network running on GPUs with convolutional kernels. For fucks sake, turn on your damn brain.

        Generative AI is actually one of the easier subjects to comprehend here. Its just calculus. Use of derivatives to backpropagate weights in such a way that minimizes error. Lather-rinse-repeat for a billion iterations on a mass of GPUs (ie: 20 TFlop compute systems) for several weeks.

        Come on, this stuff is well understood by Comp. Sci by now. Not only 20 years ago when I learned about this stuff, but today now that AI is all hype, more and more people are understanding the basics.

        • Mirodir@discuss.tchncs.de
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          10 months ago

          Understanding the math behind it doesn’t immediately mean understanding the decision progress during forward propagation. Of course you can mathematically follow it, but you’re quickly gonna lose the overview with that many weights. There’s a reason XAI is an entire subfield in Machine Learning.

          • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Understanding the math behind it doesn’t immediately mean understanding the decision progress during forward propagation.

            Ummm… its lossy compressed data from the training set.

            Is it a perfect copy? No. But copyright law covers “derivative data” so whatever, the law remains clear on this situation.