Germany’s leading Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the opposition Christian Democratic Party (CDU) have ordered high schools in Berlin’s borough of Neukolln to distribute brochures titled The Myth of Israel #1948.
The brochure states there are five “myths” around the creation of the state of Israel, which are subsequently refuted in short essays by various authors.
In the first section, debunking myth #1, that Jews and Arabs lived together in peace before Israel was founded, Israel’s pre-state militia, the Haganah, responsible for the destruction of 531 Palestinian villages and the expulsion of 700,000 Palestinians between December 1947 and the summer of 1948, is promoted as a merely “defensive” Jewish resistance movement.
“Myth #5: Israel is to blame for the Nakba”, includes a text by researcher Shany Mor titled “the UN is distorting the meaning of the Nakba: its view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is extremely one-sided”.
In the text, Mor states that “displacement during war - then and now - was nothing unusual”.
He also labels the UN’s attention to the Palestinian cause “obsessive” and the Arab defeat of 1948 a myth.
The brochure is created by the Jewish association Masiyot, which was founded in 2022 and enjoys the support of the Berliner Landeszentrale fur politische Bildung, the Federal Center for Political Education.
Some 1984 shit…
“In the 1948 War of Independence, 6000 Jews were killed, fully 1% of the total population (was it a genocide?)”, a Twitter post by Mor reads
It’s just nutty tweets by this clueless “expert” https://twitter.com/ShMMor
https://www.masiyot.de/mythos-israel1948
Nine mentioned of arab terrorism, six mentions of pogroms run by Arabs…
Truly, it’s as if Germany has learnt absolutely nothing from it’s past.
Removed by mod
They never really hated the Jews, just had to pick SOMEONE to genocide after all.
Now its the moose-lambs turn
They genocided lots of other groups including queers and catholics, so you are basically correct.
The general idea is that these parties do not want to be seen as anti-semetic, especially considering the German past. Which leads to no criticism towards Israel whatsoever. It’s a shame actually, because this opens the door to the AfD party, who dont have qualms about these kind of things.
That’s why it’s doubly shameful of Germany to have this stance, and also a great pity. Germany calling out Israel for it’s genocide would be as strong a rebuke as South Africa calling out Israel for Apartheid.
Well Germany didn’t acknowledge the Namibia genocide until 2021. They’re fine with acknowledging the Holocaust since they can pin that on a rouge actor, the Nazi’s. Since they can’t pin their support for Israel on anyone else, they have trouble acknowledging Israel’s conduct.
Yes, i actaully didn’t know about this.
I suppose that’s one of the reasons why the Namibian president rebuked Germany for it’s stance on Israel in South Africa’s genocide case against Israel.
since they can pin that on a rouge actor, the Nazi’s
This is a take I don’t agree with. There’s absolutely elements of that, but they seem to also be very hostile to anyone that doesn’t accept it as a “national guilt” that everyone’s responsible for (including their Muslim immigrant population).
The right can then use this as a sort of concrete national character to persecute immigrants (thus the CDU support) while the left can use it as a rallying cry that they’re fighting fascism (SDP support). It really is a perfect storm for awfulness.
“Never again” clearly was not taught and learned as being about genocide or violence along etnic lines, but rather as being about the very specific case of Germans vs Jews.
It’s like the thief who regrets hitting a specific place after caught and punished, but has no regrets about thiefing in general.
This is the first time in my life I feel ashamed being a German.
The blind support for Israel by the current government and making Germany complicit in a genocide again - it is beyond disgusting. I will never vote for the social democrats or greens again. I will NEVER forgive them this. Luckily in Germany there are other parties waste your vote on.
Of course other western nations under the directive of the US and Israel are complicit in this genocide as well. And I imagine they are pushing fascist propaganda like that leaflet too in various forms. You should be furious at your governments as well.
We learn about fascism and the horrors of nazi Germany in school, but of course, almost all western former colonial powers have committed horrible crimes against humanity and genocide. We Germans should know better that fascist systems amplifying the worst of human nature are NOT uniquely German but that all nations are susceptible to this. Including Israel of course.
I have to confess I missed too exactly how bad the fascist ideology has gotten within Israel. But it’s happening everywhere, US, South America, India has gotten pretty bad, Russia of course, Europe is pushing somewhat back… it is impossible to follow it all and not want to turn off. And there is a massive media bias in the German mainstream press. They report the facts about Israel but frame and explain them so that you emotionally root for Israel.
There have been massive protests against the fascist AfD and the misinformation and conspiracy theories they further. And we all slap each other on the back while at the same time the main German news media are spreading these fake and misleading narratives.
And of course the reason US/EU supports Israel is because they are our allies, our pitbull in the middle east, keeping the whole region unstable and under control. The repercussions for “loosing Israel” would be high.
I fear things are only going to get worse in the future as material conditions deteriorate, and climate change creates a billion refugees over the next hundred years. Fascism, wars, genocide and megadeaths will become the new norm.
Germany’s leading Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the opposition Christian Democratic Party (CDU
Where greens
Federal government currently is a coalition of 3 parties social democrats, greens and libertarians.
But the greens have nothing to do with this one. They were not mentioned once in this article, see:
The culprits are the SPD and CDU, the latter being in the opposition. Your reasoning does not make sense here.
Yes true in the case of this pamphlet. But my argument isn’t about this propaganda pamphlet alone - the greens are heavily involved in supporting Israel and aiding the genocide in Gaza since the foreign minister is from the green party (Annalena Baerbock). If she didn’t want to be guilty of aiding in genocide she should have resigned under protest.
And to be clear: I do want to see them thrown in jail for this. Even though I know that will never happen.
Germany trying real hard to constantly be on the wrong side of history when it comes to genocide.
It’s more that Germany did such an awful crime against Jews that there’s a perceived obligation to never be against Jews or Israel.
Propaganda justifying violence by an etnic group deemed superior against an etnic group deemed inferior complete with fables of how the true victims are the etnic group with more power which is attacking the other one, with the Reich enforcing its use for indoctrination of children.
Goebbels would’ve been proud.
gay balls haha
Insanity. We are living in clown world.
People don’t understand that people who have ideologies like nazi and zionazi will never stop after genociding one ethnic/religious group, after they are done with palestinians/muslims, you can be sure someone else will be next, we can already see this with them bombing churches
This is for the most part a very good brochure and the uninformed people here that only read a faulty summary or headline should probably read it, then make up their mind instead of being instinctively angry. Especially the part where it talks about the misconceptions with the typical „expansion comparison maps“ and what they really show was informative.
The very first paragraphs conflates “Israel-oriented Antisemitism” (?), goes on with “Prejudice against the Jewish state” (defining Israel as a jewish Ethnostate / Nationalism and conflating criticism against a regime or ideology with racist prejudice) and then mentions “colonial rule, apartheid state and occupation” as examples of this antisemitism manifesting itself on the street, media, politics, academia.
Whatever else comes after, it’s being framed with that. That is how the propaganda works, say a bunch of conflating nonsense and then justify it with non-sequitur historical facts - which might well be true in order to “validate” the initial point they are making:
Any criticism of Israel’s fascist regime is antisemitism. If that intro isn’t about antisemitism understood as outlined, what else would it be about?
That leaflet is very well crafted fascist apologia / propaganda. No matter how many other points they are making that might be accurate or informative (not that you should trust them either after that intro).
Are we reading the same link? You’re doing quite some mind acrobatics here by picking various small quotes/passages from only the start of the text and putting your own spin on it. This narrative is in your head, not in the article.
Not sure how to argue this better. But how do you interpret these phrases? Like what are they supposed to mean otherwise?
Israel-oriented Antisemitism
Prejudice against the Jewish state
And why is it distributed now? As a seeming response to condemnation of apparent genocide, even just changing the subject is a form of propaganda. Are we supposed to learn and debate history while a people is exterminated?
And what does all that or the rest have to do with criticism against the policies and war crimes of the Government of Israel? None of Israel’s history precludes a fascist government taking over Israel.
I‘m fine with discussion. But I see little value in discussing a text with someone who has not read it. We don’t have to guess their intentions when they already wrote it down quite clearly. Neither do I see a reason to doubt their intentions based on timing. Antisemitism (violence against Jews) in Germany has been sharply on the rise in the last few years and it is the job of the Landeszentrale to debunk some of the myths that foster it.
The main point of the paper is to correct these five myths about Israel and that is what it does. It is very focused on this and one-sided, obviously. One might think it is bad taste to ignore current events. Maybe. But it does exactly what it says and I found it informative.
Are we supposed to learn and debate history while a people is exterminated?
Yes. That might be a good first step. It takes about one hour. There is much one can critique Israel for - let’s stick to the truths.
It is worth noting that Neukölln is a district with an enormous share of non-ethnic citizens and foreigners, many of whom are Muslims.
I would assume that factored into the decision in some way or another.
What are non-ethnic citizens?
Exactly what it says? Citizens who are not ethnic nationals, German in this case.
I assume you’re using a direct translation of a German term, but in English that doesn’t make sense. “Ethnic” as an adjective by itself usually means an ethnic minority, and while “non-ethnic” isn’t really a term anyone uses it would be read as meaning the majority ethnicity in a place
They’re using it based on the ethnic majority vs minority, and it’s pretty obvious. And yes, there is an ethnic majority to counterbalance an ethnic minority. They’re talking about people who are german citizens but aren’t german ethnics.
I know, they’ve already explained it. I’m just explaining why English first-language people might be confused by the phrasing.
Ok, to me that already sounds very different.
“Ethnic minority/ majority” makes sense.
Non-ethnic German is tricky, because there are multiple ethnicities in Germany.
Non-ethnic sounds like someone doesn’t have an ethnicity.
No it doesn’t. Google “ethnic Germans”. The broad definition is any people of German descent or who speak the language natively. Someone who immigrated isn’t an ethnic German yet till they gain citizenship and speak the language fluently.
Germany is one of the few countries supporting genocide in Gaza and zionistic narrative is common sense in their medias and politics. It’s a far right country. They even were thinking in forbidding pro-palestine demonstrations. “Anti-semitic”.
Orrrrrr hear me out - maybe Germany has a very unique kind of relation with Israel and therefore, historically, is struggling very hard to criticize Israel, no matter how justified the criticism may be. We have a few dickhead nazis, but to call Germany a “far right country”, you must be a russian shill or some other clown.
anyone remember south park we still hate you?
i plain hate idf as much as hamas as they are both facists.
Germans winning at being brain-dead and learning absolutely nothing about their genocidal history.
This country is a joke
I’m as appalled as anyone here, but as someone who speaks German, follows German media and worked in Germany for several years, please stop with the misinformed “Germany supporting genocide again, I guess they never change hurr durr” bullshit.
Germans know their history and every kid is taught a deep shame of what past Germans had done. They feel they owe an infinitely large debt to all Jews for the horrors of the holocaust. They all still feel responsible.
There are laws against antisemitism. Again, this is reasonable for a country with this history. They don’t want any of this to come back, or to make a joke or justification of what happened. Joke about Nazis in public and you’ll find yourself in trouble immediately.
About the current events in Gaza. German media and politicians interpret criticism of Israel as coming from antisemitism, even if the criticism itself may be justified. They may not hear your arguments at all, if they think you’re just saying these things because of some secret antisemitic agenda. It’s not that there isn’t any criticism, but there is very little and it’s always surrounded with a lot of “I’m not antisemitic” qualifiers. You can say something about the Israeli government, but not about the existence of Israel itself. You can call the killing in Gaza terrible tragedy, but never a genocide. Public protest doesn’t do that kind of nuance, so it’s regarded as highly suspect. The chant “from the river to the sea” is tainted, so you can’t say it at all, regardless of intent, interpretation of its meaning, they will flat out stop you. In this sense, dialog is certainly difficult. Once you cross the line, they will dismiss anything after that as the ramblings of just another antisemite. It’s not possible to have the difficult conversations at all.
I’m not saying I agree with any of this, but this is how German society at large sees it. For me personally, zionism and Israel are harmful remnants of colonialist thinking that have no place in this century. Germany needs to grow up when it comes to their stance on Israel. Israel can’t keep oppressing Arabs the way they have. Peace can only come from trying to restore justice and that means equal rights for non-Jews, return of land, right to return of refugees, economic aid, etcetera.
Germany should look at South Africa, Northern Ireland and to their own German Unification as examples from history to follow, and admit their holocaust trauma is distorting their view of the current situation.
I mean you have a point and I agree with most of what you’re saying, but we’re sending weapons and providing rhetorical cover for the Israeli government. E.g. by the police violently interrupting protests, or worse insisting that the claims of genocide are baseless and going as far as announcing to intervene on Israel’s behalf in the ICJ.
Palestinians are being killed by German-delivered ammunition all while Germany is defending Israel in the ICJ. This is clearly supporting the ongoing genocide
I know, it’s fucked up. I just want to comment on these braindead “Nazis gonna Nazi, amirite?” comedians littering every thread about Germany and Israel right now
The reality is that people are really disappointed in Germany for once again supporting Genocide.
Especially with Gaza being a literal concentration camp entrapping two million people, the similarities become rather hard to ignore.
It’s a low blow but factually the Nazis are Nazi’ing again pretty hard.
Nobody is personally holding you responsible, but I hope you can put pressure on your government to stop their complicity in this Genocide.
The low blow is counterproductive, don’t you see?
I’m afraid that Germany doesn’t get a free pass when, once again, it supports extreme violence along racial lines with an intensity that has surpassed every other such cases in the modern era but the of the Nazis, accompanied by extreme racist proclamations and even Nazi-style propaganda.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s gonna be called a duck.
It is not counter productive. It is an apt comparison that quickly gets people to understand the gravity of the situation. A huge Genocide is going on I do not care about people’s feelings getting hurt from the truth.
I’ll leave you with a final quote.
Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Restisters - Naomi Shulman.
Okay, Nazi-
That’s what you wanted right? Now cry foul and send more weapons to isreal.
Hey you’re getting downvoted pretty hard in this thread but just want to say I think you’re right. Having a nuanced opinion is tough on social media. (I already see one commenter calling you a Nazi as a result)
The whole idea that this is happening because Germans just love genocide so much is just beyond ridiculous.
Thanks. I think it’s nice that you come out and say this. I want to say it doesn’t bother me but it does. I am playing on the same damn team as they are. They’re throwing all these talking points at me and I’m like “I know! I agree with all of that!”, so surreal
As a german citizen, I do not fully agree with you. Of course, some people behave the way you described because of the reasons you provided, although I find their reasons mostly stupid since they are so inconsistent: why are other genocides more acceptable than others? Why did Germany only recognize the namibian genocide in 2021? Why doesn’t Germany extend the same amount of care, empathy, and concern to LGBTQ people, sinti/roma, and other victims of the holocaust?
On the other hand, there is a growing number of relatively prominent German politicians that have made nazi remarks in semi-public spaces or behind closed doors, or have been uncovered to have a deeply troubling neonazi past, yet they still get invited everywhere and do not see the level of state repression (through the cutting of funds for example) or police violence that pro palestine activists see. Somehow the first point doesn’t seem to fully extend and clamp down on these people.
True but these American jokesters aren’t referring to that, I can assure you.
We should do something about right wing extremism being on the rise all over Europe, especially the politicians and rich fucks getting away with it
The entire thing seems to have been taught in Germany as a lesson about one specific race shouldn’t have done what they did to another, specific, race, rather than as the Humanitarian Principle that people, any people, independently of race or creed shouldn’t be oppressed and killed for their etnicity-
So the framework of cold. calous, violent Racism was preserved but in the German mind a specific race - Jewish People - was moved from the list of “inferior races” to the list of “superior races like us”.
(It’s funny how your description of it, heavilly ladden with racial terms, is a wonderful display of just how the “regret” about that country’s own extreme racist violence fully preserves the entire racist mindset of classifying people as members of races and credos and then judging them and treating them differently because of such races and credos, hency why your description of such learnings is all about a specific race, with no reference whatsoever to individuals or humanitarian principles)
Had the lesson been learned along Humanitarian lines, Germany would not unwaveringly support the “Jewish Nation” as they call it as it over the years became ever more Fascist and violent, cultimating in what very overtly is Genocide with openly racist tones (the “human animals” statement by members of the Israeli Governments says it all) because the etnicity of the majority in a nation is entirelly irrelevant for non-racists when judging that nation on its actions, as is the etnicity of its victims: the actions speak for themselves and for a humanitarian, rather than a racist, the race of those involved neither improves nor worsens the judgment of those actions.
That all this has and is being pushed into the minds of the common German using “old-style” propaganda which is even aimed, as we see here, to children, is a pretty worrisome indication that this is more than “mere” racism in Germany and that Fascism never really left the mindset of that country’s power elites and that its ways are still seen as the right way of doing things, both towards the German Population by deploying the kind of Propaganda techniques that Goebbels was so fond of and towards the “enemies of our friends” by continuing to provide “unwavering” support to a Fascist nation currently engaged in the most violent murderous genocide along racial lines since the Nazis.
currently engaged in the most violent murderous genocide along racial lines since the Nazis.
Ignorance is bliss, but this is just so wrong. I’m not sure if 10 fingers are enough to count every event making this false.
Germany is supporting Genocide dude.
You should learn a thing or two about your History. You clearly didn’t pay attention in school.
Never again means never again for anyone.
I’ve concluded that Germans were taught “never again” as a very specific “Germans” vs “Jews” thing rather than the Humanist “never again shall people be murder en masse because of their etnicity” that does not include any specifics about the etnicity or credo of the perpetrators or the victims.
Certainly, that would be very consistent with not just the current behaviour of German politicians when it comes to Israel’s Genocide but also how the past events which Germans regret are invariably framed and talked about in race terms, i.e. “Germans” and “Jews”, even to the point of excluding other etnicities that the Germans also targetted and murdered in large numbers during WWII such as the Roma.
If one doesn’t destroy the racist framework of thinking of people as members of a race first, one is still a racist (even if some races one before though of as “lesser”, one now thinks of as “like us”), because one is still running around judging and acting based on prejudices about entire races and credos when dealing with human beings - not treating them as persons but rather treating them as members of groups they were born into.
This right here is what I’m talking about. We all know the history, thank you very much. Germany’s stance comes from extreme loyalty to Jews to make up for past crimes, not from a desire to genocide Gazans. I can’t say it any more plainly. These jokes and remarks about “Germans always be genociding” are insulting and incorrect.
And you don’t have to explain to me how Israel is absolutely in the wrong in this conflict, my friend. Israel is committing (and has been committing) genocide and I condemn that to the fullest. Not only should there be a ceasefire, there should be an end to the occupation
Germany was a big fan of expulsing all the Jews to another country. This has nothing to do with wanting to protect them.
In fact the opposite is true. Getting all the Jews to voluntarily migrate completely falls in line with Nazi ideology.
The Madagascar Plan was a plan proposed by the Nazi German government to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar. Franz Rademacher, head of the Jewish Department of the German Foreign Office, proposed the idea in June 1940
Germany has a massive Nazi party in the AfD right now. So the actual protection of Jews does not seem like a German priority.
AfD are not all Germans. You know this. There have been widespread protests. I’m assuming you’re Dutch and I hope you would be equally offended if people said you are complicit in Geert Wilders horrible utterings. There aren’t any widespread protests of PVV as for the AfD.
I don’t see the point in arguing here, to be honest. I am not defending anything bad here. I’m just sick of the kneejerk reaction equating present day Germans to actual 1940s Nazis for shits and giggles.
We need Germans who support Israel unconditionally to consider that Jews aren’t the victims this time, and that protecting Jewry from antisemitism does not mean they can’t do anything wrong, ever. It doesn’t help if people show a blatant disregard for the history and sensibilities of German society
Any comparisons of this Genocide in Gaza to the Dutch being very helpful to Nazi Germany in 1940 are fully justified too. The Dutch were massive Nazi’s and once again the Dutch are massive Nazi’s.
If anything I encourage people to use these stereotypes to showcase how we are making the same mistakes as in the past once again.
Dutch PM Mark Rutte said “How can we make it look like israel isn’t committing war crimes” because he wants to be promoted the NATO top general and is a giant bootlicker. This is not just Geert Wilders.
If the Netherlands starts giving F35 parts to israel again please start calling them Nazi’s I have zero objections to that.
Fair enough but the generalizations aren’t helping. We need them to see how Israel is on the wrong side, because simply calling them Nazis is just adding to the confusion. How can they be Nazis by supporting Jews, they’ll say. It doesn’t make sense.
The big parallel that makes israel so comparable to Nazism is that israel has ethnically cleansed all these Palestinians into a giant concentration camp and is systematically murdering them through starvation, mass executions and bombing.
Especially the starvation is just completely inexcusable. Children are currently dying en masse of starvation in Gaza.
Nazism was not just about Jews. It was about Black people, gay people and Gypsies too. Everyone not part of the “majority” group needed to die.
In fact most of the victims of WW2 on the European side were Russians. 20 Million. And we don’t talk about the Germans.
Nazism is currently the most well known example of racial superiority because of bloodline.
I read it as 1948 Nebraska. It was like the beginning of a bad joke, trying to figure out what’s the connection between present day Germany, historical Nebraska and jews…
