I am aware we have the food to feed everyone. Why are you ignoring all the damage to the environment that making all that food causes? You’re also informing the fact that climate change will make it much harder to produce and distribute good. Distribution is already a problem today.
Let’s say what you have said is true and that GMOs are worthless. What are you going to do about the environmental impact of food production instead? Surely you have some master plan?
Calling someone a liberal isn’t going to help your cause. What exactly have I said that makes you think this? Making accusations without having anything to back them up is just going to turn people against you and whatever ideology you support. Is this why leftists always fight? Because they are too busy calling the other side liberals? What ideology is it you support anyway?
Why are you ignoring all the damage to the environment that making all that food causes?
I’m not the one ignoring it, genius. You are the one peddling the techno-fetishist idea that you can simply handwave all these problems away with capitalist-approved techno-fixes that is designed from the ground up to preserve the destructive status quo they created in the first bloody place.
Distribution is already a problem today.
No, liberal - the ability to cause targeted famine amongst people is not a “problem” in a capitalist society. It is a feature. What do you think comes first for a capitalist - the actual, real-world value of a crate of corn, or it’s market price?
Spoiler alert - it’s not the former.
Surely you have some master plan?
I guess it’s true what they say - a liberal will rather imagine the end of the world than imagine the end of capitalism. So much for liberal “rationality,” eh?
Calling someone a liberal isn’t going to help your cause
Why? Do you not like being reminded that the liberal ideology you are beholden to is actually an ideology? It is not “rational.” It is not “normal.” It is not “common sense.” It is an ideology designed to protect a status quo that has brought us to the precipice of environmental disaster that it has no intention of saving you from.
Since I don’t defend capitalists how am I a liberal? I want a world where the people own the businesses they work for and have a say in how they are run, instead of shareholders owning them. I don’t see how that’s liberal at all.
What is it you believe anyway?
I’m not the one ignoring it, genius. You are the one peddling the techno-fetishist idea that you can simply
handwave all these problems away with capitalist-approved techno-fixes that is designed from the ground up to preserve the destructive status quo they created in the first bloody place.
I am not saying they will fix all issues. Just that they are a useful tool. You are bending what I have said to support your own bad arguments.
I guess it’s true what they say - a liberal will rather imagine the end of the world than imagine the end of capitalism. So much for liberal “rationality,” eh?
Wasn’t it a marxist who said socialism or barbarism? It seems liberals and marxists are both death cults. Makes sense when you know that Marxists kill all the other socialists like the anarchists.
Since I don’t defend capitalists how am I a liberal?
You don’t have to defend capitalism to be a liberal.
I want a world where the people own the businesses they work for and have a say in how they are run
I think you mean, “own the means of production.”
Just that they are a useful tool.
Oh, it’s useful for many things… colonialism, for one. Just ask Bill Gates!
kill all the other socialists like the anarchists.
I think you mean Marxist-Leninists. Very different from just plain old Marxists. Marxist-Leninism is “Marxist” in the same way that Social Darwinism is “Darwinist.”
Do you support some non-Leninist version of Marxism? Leninists are the most common form of Marxist. It’s therefore difficult to say they aren’t real Marxists. I am actually not against some ideas like libertarian marxism as it’s Leninists I fell out with.
You don’t have to defend capitalism to be a liberal.
Also weren’t you saying that liberals are all about capitalism earlier? How can you be a liberal and not support capitalism? I swear liberal is an American term anyway hardly anyone uses it where I live. Shouldn’t you just say capitalist?
No, they’re not. There are plenty of Marxists that doesn’t even self-describe as Marxists - in the same way that physicists who study and use Einstein’s theories don’t self-describe as “Einsteinists.” It would be silly. Even anarchists accept Marx’s critique of capitalism - does that make them “Marxists?” Generally, Marxist-Leninists use Marx’s image in the same way the Catholic Church uses images of Christ - ie, they care more about “owning” Marx for political capital than anything Marx actually wrote or meant.
Also weren’t you saying that liberals are all about capitalism earlier?
Capitalism is a feature of liberalism.
How can you be a liberal and not support capitalism?
Lots of liberals purport to criticize capitalism - you simply have to look at politicians like Bernie Sanders to see that. However, their criticism is purely constructive - their purpose is to protect the liberal status quo by reigning in the most overt excesses of capitalism. Their purpose is most definitely not to dismantle it. Dismantling capitalism (whether through peaceful means or otherwise) is where the left starts - it doesn’t matter what CNN or France24 decides to call “leftist.”
You’re also completely ignoring that GMOs are required to produce modern insulin. Without them we would have to resort to using pigs again which some people are allergic to. So I guess those people can just die according to you, right?
You’re also completely ignoring that GMOs are required to produce modern insulin.
You want to talk about insulin? You want to talk about an instance where GMOs actually managed to deliver something worthwhile and yet the the powers that controls these GMOs has still managed to price tons of people out of insulin?
They don’t know where I live because we have state-run medicine.
Also the fact it took you this long to admit that GMOs could be actually useful when used correctly is hilarious. It’s what everyone had been telling you this whole time. Actual creature.
Also the fact it took you this long to admit that GMOs
Oh… I never denied that. Maybe you (and the rest of the liberals here) should reserve your flexes for when you deserve it, no?
It’s what everyone had been telling you this whole time.
You mean you and all the liberals that will happily allow Bayer and Bill Gates to threaten the world’s food security with their GMO monocropping as long as you get to buy your way out of it?
Gee… I wonder why I’m so unimpressed by your shitty and self-serving liberalese?
Read this whole discussion. It’s entirely obvious to anyone who isn’t you. Looking at both this conversation and your post history it’s clear your either a troll or your brain is soup. Actually thinking marxists can be liberals - what the fuck.
I am aware we have the food to feed everyone. Why are you ignoring all the damage to the environment that making all that food causes? You’re also informing the fact that climate change will make it much harder to produce and distribute good. Distribution is already a problem today.
Let’s say what you have said is true and that GMOs are worthless. What are you going to do about the environmental impact of food production instead? Surely you have some master plan?
Calling someone a liberal isn’t going to help your cause. What exactly have I said that makes you think this? Making accusations without having anything to back them up is just going to turn people against you and whatever ideology you support. Is this why leftists always fight? Because they are too busy calling the other side liberals? What ideology is it you support anyway?
I’m not the one ignoring it, genius. You are the one peddling the techno-fetishist idea that you can simply handwave all these problems away with capitalist-approved techno-fixes that is designed from the ground up to preserve the destructive status quo they created in the first bloody place.
No, liberal - the ability to cause targeted famine amongst people is not a “problem” in a capitalist society. It is a feature. What do you think comes first for a capitalist - the actual, real-world value of a crate of corn, or it’s market price?
Spoiler alert - it’s not the former.
I guess it’s true what they say - a liberal will rather imagine the end of the world than imagine the end of capitalism. So much for liberal “rationality,” eh?
Why? Do you not like being reminded that the liberal ideology you are beholden to is actually an ideology? It is not “rational.” It is not “normal.” It is not “common sense.” It is an ideology designed to protect a status quo that has brought us to the precipice of environmental disaster that it has no intention of saving you from.
Since I don’t defend capitalists how am I a liberal? I want a world where the people own the businesses they work for and have a say in how they are run, instead of shareholders owning them. I don’t see how that’s liberal at all.
What is it you believe anyway?
handwave all these problems away with capitalist-approved techno-fixes that is designed from the ground up to preserve the destructive status quo they created in the first bloody place.
I am not saying they will fix all issues. Just that they are a useful tool. You are bending what I have said to support your own bad arguments.
Wasn’t it a marxist who said socialism or barbarism? It seems liberals and marxists are both death cults. Makes sense when you know that Marxists kill all the other socialists like the anarchists.
You don’t have to defend capitalism to be a liberal.
I think you mean, “own the means of production.”
Oh, it’s useful for many things… colonialism, for one. Just ask Bill Gates!
I think you mean Marxist-Leninists. Very different from just plain old Marxists. Marxist-Leninism is “Marxist” in the same way that Social Darwinism is “Darwinist.”
Do you support some non-Leninist version of Marxism? Leninists are the most common form of Marxist. It’s therefore difficult to say they aren’t real Marxists. I am actually not against some ideas like libertarian marxism as it’s Leninists I fell out with.
Also weren’t you saying that liberals are all about capitalism earlier? How can you be a liberal and not support capitalism? I swear liberal is an American term anyway hardly anyone uses it where I live. Shouldn’t you just say capitalist?
No, they’re not. There are plenty of Marxists that doesn’t even self-describe as Marxists - in the same way that physicists who study and use Einstein’s theories don’t self-describe as “Einsteinists.” It would be silly. Even anarchists accept Marx’s critique of capitalism - does that make them “Marxists?” Generally, Marxist-Leninists use Marx’s image in the same way the Catholic Church uses images of Christ - ie, they care more about “owning” Marx for political capital than anything Marx actually wrote or meant.
Capitalism is a feature of liberalism.
Lots of liberals purport to criticize capitalism - you simply have to look at politicians like Bernie Sanders to see that. However, their criticism is purely constructive - their purpose is to protect the liberal status quo by reigning in the most overt excesses of capitalism. Their purpose is most definitely not to dismantle it. Dismantling capitalism (whether through peaceful means or otherwise) is where the left starts - it doesn’t matter what CNN or France24 decides to call “leftist.”
You’re also completely ignoring that GMOs are required to produce modern insulin. Without them we would have to resort to using pigs again which some people are allergic to. So I guess those people can just die according to you, right?
You want to talk about insulin? You want to talk about an instance where GMOs actually managed to deliver something worthwhile and yet the the powers that controls these GMOs has still managed to price tons of people out of insulin?
Sure. We can do that.
They don’t know where I live because we have state-run medicine.
Also the fact it took you this long to admit that GMOs could be actually useful when used correctly is hilarious. It’s what everyone had been telling you this whole time. Actual creature.
Oh… I never denied that. Maybe you (and the rest of the liberals here) should reserve your flexes for when you deserve it, no?
You mean you and all the liberals that will happily allow Bayer and Bill Gates to threaten the world’s food security with their GMO monocropping as long as you get to buy your way out of it?
Gee… I wonder why I’m so unimpressed by your shitty and self-serving liberalese?
That is exactly what you have been doing. Now you’re just arguing in bad faith.
Prove it, genius.
Read this whole discussion. It’s entirely obvious to anyone who isn’t you. Looking at both this conversation and your post history it’s clear your either a troll or your brain is soup. Actually thinking marxists can be liberals - what the fuck.