I’m a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I’m a fascist for disagreeing with you.
The Soviet Union and The People’s Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
And then he pushed the Doctors’ Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn’t commit, but I guess that didn’t happen in your little fantasy land.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn’t like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it’s not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin’s rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn’t like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of “manifest destiny”
You just were like “what about their treatment of gay people” I’m just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
It’s funny how you use the word “murder” to describe the anarchists’ killing and then switch to a euphemism (“liquidate”) the second you talk about the USSR’s killing.
Today I learner that I, a far left anarchist that desires the complete abolition of state and a direct democracy of the people, is an “anti communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists”. And that apparently worshipping totalitarian dictatorships is the only real form of leftism and is definitely not fascism with a red coat of paint.
In fact, you’re actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs
The Soviet Union and The People’s Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
This is a factually true statement. You should check it.
Stalin would’ve thrown you in a gulag for being a “sexual deviant” if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like “nope sorry can’t help you there” and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.
I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.
So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here’s a great video on that topic.
You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.
I also don’t see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.
These are objective facts that you can easily confirm with five minutes research. I suspect you don’t understand the significance of them if you think it’s some kind of joke.
The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out. This was reprehensible.
Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.
Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest. Neither ghengis (or the many other conquesting leaders of China, including mao) or Jackson are alive now, so their actions are historical in nature.
The difference is china did that to their own people, through incompetence, not though land acquisition.
Be clear: I’m not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.
Especially since the four pests campaign occurred less than 100 years ago.
Also great whataboutism, I never claimed america was the gold standard, only that china and the Soviet union certainly don’t own the crown.
Do you not understand a difference between evaluating the merit of a national project in general and, within the context of evaluating one such project, prioritizing the moral importance of that country’s own people over humanity in general?
Put another way, giving moral priority to citizens and considering the butchering of “non-citizens” a lesser crime (even when those people were citizens who had their citizenship stripped away from them) is reactionary. Practical priority is a little different because logistical limitations are real, but these people are just excusing literal ethnic cleansing.
First, yeah, sure, Mongolians saw things through modern Euro-centric racism to say “we are all the same, there are no Mongolians or Chinese, only backwards Asians”. Second, your defense of Native American genocide basically boils down to “your honor, we didn’t consider them human when we genocided them”
I don’t understand your first point. Are you suggesting the ghengis khan’s conquest was informed by “euro-centric” learnings or influence? I’ll need a source on that.
Re the second point I wasn’t claiming anyone was or wasn’t human, I was indicating that expansionist conquest occured in an era of expansionist conquest. A trait not solely owned by Europeans/Americans. China has a massive history of conflict along ethnic and tribal lines, and a massive history of conquest too.
Conquest, war and “dehumanization” is evidenced by their borders, everyone’s borders, everywhere. Throughout history.
The post was very clearly saying that Ghengis Khan and the post-Mongolian Chinese state is a worse form of conquest and murder because they were conquering and killing their own people.
But the US was killing Native Americans which weren’t citizens, so it is not as bad as killing your own people like the Mongolian/Chinese/Mao.
Uh, ghengis Khan certainly killed a lot of non mongols. He pretty strongly justified the conquest on such terms. (that, and loyalty/fealty). Many leaders through time did.
All that said, consider football.
A point is a point, but an own goal stings worse. Not because the opposing players are subhuman, but you were supposed to do best by your own.
Yes, and then you did apologetics for a genocide by claiming it wasn’t as bad because the victims weren’t citizens of the state doing the genocide, which is:
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I’m a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I’m a fascist for disagreeing with you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Ah yes, because the best way to defeat fascism is to worship dictatorships lead by power-hungry, totalitarian bigots
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And then he pushed the Doctors’ Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn’t commit, but I guess that didn’t happen in your little fantasy land.
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Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn’t like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
I really don’t get how you think this diminishes the fact that the soviets defeated nazism
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it’s not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
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So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin’s rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
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Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of “manifest destiny”
Just because I hate the USSR doesn’t mean that I approve of everything the First World did. Cease your whataboutism.
You just were like “what about their treatment of gay people” I’m just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
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He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
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I’m in a western country and not in jail, so yeah, unlike in the west.
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It’s funny how you use the word “murder” to describe the anarchists’ killing and then switch to a euphemism (“liquidate”) the second you talk about the USSR’s killing.
Shows how completely brainwashed you are.
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Uh, yes I am? You don’t know shit about my political opinions
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lol what
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Today I learner that I, a far left anarchist that desires the complete abolition of state and a direct democracy of the people, is an “anti communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists”. And that apparently worshipping totalitarian dictatorships is the only real form of leftism and is definitely not fascism with a red coat of paint.
Care to show me where I ever said that?
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This is a factually true statement. You should check it.
Stalin would’ve thrown you in a gulag for being a “sexual deviant” if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like “nope sorry can’t help you there” and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.
I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.
So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here’s a great video on that topic.
You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.
I also don’t see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.
China is a modern country. Why does it have such backwards laws on transition?
Tell me Awoo, tell me.
These are objective facts that you can easily confirm with five minutes research. I suspect you don’t understand the significance of them if you think it’s some kind of joke.
Where are all the sparrows, tankie?
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The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out. This was reprehensible.
Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.
Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest. Neither ghengis (or the many other conquesting leaders of China, including mao) or Jackson are alive now, so their actions are historical in nature.
The difference is china did that to their own people, through incompetence, not though land acquisition.
Be clear: I’m not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.
Especially since the four pests campaign occurred less than 100 years ago.
Also great whataboutism, I never claimed america was the gold standard, only that china and the Soviet union certainly don’t own the crown.
https://alphahistory.com/chineserevolution/a-soviet-scientist-on-the-four-pests-campaign-1964/
Edit: “lol ghengis Khan old” yeah, he’s dead and so are his “voters”. So is Andrew Jackson and his “voters”.
Edit edit: don’t decry me for being “jingoistic” in a thread where I called a guy out for simping for a nation state in the first place.
The prioritization of the importance of “their own people” is transparently jingoistic thinking that you are just glossing over
I replied to someone simping for a nation state. Pot, kettle.
Do you not understand a difference between evaluating the merit of a national project in general and, within the context of evaluating one such project, prioritizing the moral importance of that country’s own people over humanity in general?
Put another way, giving moral priority to citizens and considering the butchering of “non-citizens” a lesser crime (even when those people were citizens who had their citizenship stripped away from them) is reactionary. Practical priority is a little different because logistical limitations are real, but these people are just excusing literal ethnic cleansing.
Actions China undertook as well. Arguably still undertaking.
Point being they aren’t a paragon of social justice or elevating the masses.
Which is why I replied in the first place.
First, yeah, sure, Mongolians saw things through modern Euro-centric racism to say “we are all the same, there are no Mongolians or Chinese, only backwards Asians”. Second, your defense of Native American genocide basically boils down to “your honor, we didn’t consider them human when we genocided them”
I don’t understand your first point. Are you suggesting the ghengis khan’s conquest was informed by “euro-centric” learnings or influence? I’ll need a source on that.
Re the second point I wasn’t claiming anyone was or wasn’t human, I was indicating that expansionist conquest occured in an era of expansionist conquest. A trait not solely owned by Europeans/Americans. China has a massive history of conflict along ethnic and tribal lines, and a massive history of conquest too.
Conquest, war and “dehumanization” is evidenced by their borders, everyone’s borders, everywhere. Throughout history.
No one is clean, and no one is a hero.
The post was very clearly saying that Ghengis Khan and the post-Mongolian Chinese state is a worse form of conquest and murder because they were conquering and killing their own people.
But the US was killing Native Americans which weren’t citizens, so it is not as bad as killing your own people like the Mongolian/Chinese/Mao.
Uh, ghengis Khan certainly killed a lot of non mongols. He pretty strongly justified the conquest on such terms. (that, and loyalty/fealty). Many leaders through time did.
All that said, consider football. A point is a point, but an own goal stings worse. Not because the opposing players are subhuman, but you were supposed to do best by your own.
Used as a retort to a “Soviet Russia and china saved the world” comment.
Yes, and then you did apologetics for a genocide by claiming it wasn’t as bad because the victims weren’t citizens of the state doing the genocide, which is:
No, I indicated that conquest happened. I never ever supported it.
Conquest happened on every square meter of land on this planet.
I also indicated an own-goal is fucking embarrassing,
And if you don’t care about that, an own goal of that magnitude takes one out of the running for “elevating the world” or whatever.
No one is a hero, no one is forgiven. All nation states are trash, some just do trash special.
The only way this makes sense is if you believe in the concept of the nation-state.