The poll found 50% of Democrats approve of how Biden has navigated the conflict while 46% disapprove ā and the two groups diverge substantially in their views of U.S. support for Israel. Bidenās support on the issue among Democrats is down slightly from August, as an AP-NORC poll conducted then found that 57% of Democrats approved of his handling of the conflict and 40% disapproved.
I love how the headline sounds so negative, and yet looking at the Numbers they could have easily just said āmore Democrats approve of his handling of the crisisā.
I mean, almost half the members of his own party disagree with him, not the nation as a whole. If this doesnāt go away, it is not good news.
The old adage come to mind that, āThe left fall in love, and the right fall in line.ā The right will more reliably vote for ātheir guyā, but Iāve seen so many losses on the left because of disenchantment.
Thatās part of the problem, though: the left never fell in love with him. He got elected by a small margin in a few key states similar to that of Trump 2016 mainly due to not being Trump rather than any merit of his own.
It might not work a second time since voters have ridiculously short memories and ānot the other oneā tactics are much less effective for incumbents.
I agree. It was an anti-Trump vote, not a pro-Biden vote.
deleted by creator
Voters are shortsighted. I still think Biden has an edge in 24, but people have quickly forgotten exactly what a disaster Trump was and have started saying āat least he did somethingā.
All because the press finds most of Bidenās successful-but-moderate presidency to be too boring to headline. Trump was in the headlines 5 days a week during his presidency. And for some people no press is bad press.
Well he promised a lot and hasnāt delivered on it. For example, he hasnāt even mentioned a public option since the election. His handling of the student loan debt thing seems like heās purposely dragging his feet, and the latest report I heard about that makes it sound like heās trying to cut back even further.
He hasnāt been as bad as I thought he would be, heās definitely the most pro-union person of my lifetime at least, but that doesnāt take away that some of the key campaign promises that he made he either hasnāt delivered on, hasnāt seemed to try to deliver on, or actively seems like he doesnāt want to.
Dragging his feet on student loans? I feel like thatās the only campaign promise heās been making a consistent effort on. He literally got shot down by the Supreme Court and has kept trying different strategies. The only times heās reduced the scope of the proposed relief is once heās been blocked at every turn.
Even as someone with student loans, Iāve almost been frustrated that heās been putting as much effort as he has into student loan relief while bigger issues see no action.
Not to mention some key progressive campaign promises have not materialized or were straight up broken.
Which ones? The ones I followed, he invested more political capital in than I ever expected.
EDIT: My own research, looks like the big one is healthcare. Heās constantly talking about it and constantly ādoing something behind closed doorsā about it, but nothing has manifested yet. I wonder if itās because it would never pass the current congress, or if thereās bigger (or more dishonest) reasons.
At this point, thereās not many things that more than half of Democrats agree on. Weāre the entire political spectrum of āeverything that isnāt fascistā.
Yeah thereās more intellectual diversity on the democratic side. When I meet a right winger, it feels like I know what 90% of their opinions are going to be. Whereas Dems have everyone from pro-corporate neo-liberals to European style lefties.
That said, I doubt thereās ānot many things that more than half of Democrats agree on.ā Abortion rights, Trump being guilty, taxing the rich, universal healthcare, climate change, protecting voting rights, etc. enjoy overwhelming agreement. As in 70-90%.
Thereās disagreement too of course: defunding the police, trans rights, reparationsā¦ but even these have 60-70%+ support amongst Dems.
I honestly canāt think of any other topic that Democrats disagree with each other as strongly about.
Fair enough. Perhaps my take was slightly hyperbolic.
Gun control is a great example of something Democrats canāt agree on. We have gun-grabbers, background-checkers, and even a few NRA-hawks. Details on Healthcare. Reparations are a 50/50, too. The thing in all of those, I think, is that weāre willing to compromise.
Actually, looking at some of your bullet points, I see them as party compromise points. Prior to Dobbs, there was a LARGE percent of Democrats who supported what they called āreasonable restrictionsā on Abortion, and many still do if tapered by seeing how slippery the slope really was. And going back 10-15 years made it even more of a mixed bag. Pew couldnāt get more than 63% of Democrats to agree abortion should be legal āin most casesā. Back when Roe was precedent. The thing was, we could all compromise on which cases, and agree that āin no casesā should never be the law of the land. The more anti-choice Democrats were willing to compromise on some propaganda, parental shame forms for underage, etc.
Ditto with healthcare. Itās a sad truth, but most Democrats didnāt want to see a Public Option in the ACA. It looks like the trend of āPublic Optionā being fringe flipped in 2020. Probably not a coincidence. I canāt find party-split polls pre-2020 right now, but a 2019 poll showed fewer than 25% of Americans wanted a Public option. Even if it was mostly Democrat-leaning voters that said that, weāre still looking at less than half. Now, admittedly, weāre approaching 70% of all voters who want some sort of public option.
FPTP Voting, details of abortion rights/restrictions, details of how to handle healthcare. Lots of Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech disagreements that just donāt rise to the level of āheadliner issueā. Iād say any copyright/dmca question is āitās complicatedā to Democrats who are informed enough to even speak of it. I canāt find numbers on the wealth tax, but they seemed mixed back when Warren was pushing it. Topical to the above discussions, military isolationism vs āworld policeā attitudes. These are all fairly contentious issues within the United States. Biden seems to represent the plurality view on most of them, which I give him credit for despite my having very different opinions.
EDIT: To clarify, itās a bigger gap for a bigger reason. Almost exactly half of Democrats are neoliberals. And our progressive caucus, almost as big as the neoliberal wing, is diversified between capitalist-progressives, socialists, and other incompatible but good-faith groups. On the big issues, weāre either all in compromise or in agreement on a few large bullet points. But on the less-highlit issues, there are fundamental foundational differences of theory of government within our party. The biggest families of issues on that are:
The list goes on. For object example, Iām a passively-anti-union progressive. I think Unions are band-aids. I think they should have all the rights and protections they have, but they are a sign of capitalism remaining dominant with regards to worker laws, and our goal should be to make them useless by making them unnecessary. Thereās a lot of Democrats that would vote anti-union, but despite my position, Iād vote pro-union as a compromise for my real wants. However, given the option between writing a union protection or a worker protection into a bill, I would fight tooth-and-nail for the worker protection. Many Democrats would fight for the union protection instead.
I mean, what does Means-testing look like WRT welfare in the Democratic party? Weāre all over the place. People like me say it should be available to everyone regardless of means, where some Labor-friendly neoliberals are happy to leave in āemployedā clauses, but want to loosen the income restrictions so that hard-working Americans get the greater benefit. Obviously I am sympathetic to that position as much as I disagree with it.
The headline is supposed to reflect the story. āMore than half of Democrats support Israelā is āDog Bites Manā, thereās nothing surprising. The fact that almost as many are opposed is the āMan Bites Dogā part.
Or they could have been brutally honest and said āmore than half of democrats approve of enabling genocideā.
And before you say ābut Trump and the Republicans are much worseā, yes thatās obviously true but thatās besides the point.
If weāre truely being honest then the majority of Americans think Isrealis are all descended from holocaust survivors surrounded by Bin Ladens who hate freedom.
American education is extremely hyper focused on itself and itself exclusively. A US student only learns about other countries through the propaganda version of armed conflicts it personally participated in.
As an American high school student in the early 90ās I was taught that Israel was a great friend to the USA and always being attacked just because other countries didnāt like Jews.
I have a better understanding of things now but it does help me understand why Israel gets so much support from my and older generations.
One turtle tells me news that I like to hear and letās me forget about the bastards over there that we keep supporting
Actually, if they were being genuinely honest, it would be more like āmore than half of democrats think Bidenās making the best choice in an all-round shitty situationā. None of us approve of enabling genocide.
Some people actually think āpushing Israel to set rules of engagementā is some of the best weāre going to get if we canāt get the entire world on-board. Nobody wants to invade Israel to stop this (do they), and Israel is out for blood right now. Trying to focus them towards Hamas and not ādestroying Palastineā might be the only win we can have 7,000 miles away.
Iām a fence-sitter on this issue, but I think the majority that supports Bidenās plan do so for reasons that have nothing to do with āenabling genocideā.
I get that you want us to condemn Israel. And Iām sure itās been considered. I also undersetand there are ramifications to the US of doing that, and it wonāt necessarily save a single Palestinian life.
Thatās a self-contradiction since what you guys think is the ābest choiceā is objectively enabling genocide by unquestioningly supporting the government committing it while punishing those that speak up against it.
It isnāt, though. Israel has been setting their own rules the whole time and thatās the majority of what caused the whole thing.
Of course not.
Thatās not being done, though. Unless thereās consequences such as withholding military (but not humanitarian) aid and possibly targeted sanctions, the apartheid regime is going to continue committing atrocities.
Yes and no: I believe that most of the people who supports his genocide-enabling are under- or misinformed enough to not know that theyāre indirectly supporting genocide.
Of course. Anything else is being complicit.
Probably not seriously, no. The neoliberal Dem leadership depend too much on bribes from AIPAC and others like them.
I guarantee you that no longer getting the financial and political support of the US would force them to be less aggressive, which would save thousands of lives.
I think objectively doesnāt mean what you think it means. But more importantly, even if youāre right about there being a better response than Bidenās (and you might be; itās a complicated issue), that doesnāt mean people who support Bidenās position agree that youāre right. Which means, NO, objectively, they do not āapprove of enabling genocideā. Just look at literally the other reply to me that agreed with me at length. And if there are at least two people who support Bidenās decisions in this thread alone that do not āapprove of enabling genocideā, then I bet you any money thereās at least 2 more out in the US. āPerhaps more than that!ā
I called you on your bad-faith accusation that Democratic voters āapprove of enabling genocideā, and nothing in your reply to me reduces the accuracy of what I called you on. Youāre just getting into the weeds arguing politics now.
If you want, Iād be happy to join that conversation as well. As soon as you concede that the āapprove of enabling genocideā thing was excessive and bad faith.
Itās a fact that the tack Biden is taking amounts to enabling genocide. Whether you know that or not, saying you approve of his handling of the situation is saying that you approve of enabling genocide no matter if you know it or not.
In other words:
Bidenās plan is objectively enabling genocide
Some people who donāt consider themselves in favor of enabling genocide support Biden
The thing that those people say they support is enabling genocide, no matter how ignorant of reality or in denial they are.
Curious who made Viking Hippie the sole arbiter of truth. How many experts disagreeing with you makes it less āweāre all objectively enabling genocideā?
What if I think Viking Hippie is āobjectively enabling genocideā? Itās a fact (ok, itās just a thought experiment). That means I get to say anyone that agrees with you is āobjectively enabling genocideā, right?
3 days to come back with āyouāre wrong because itās arrogant to be confident that youāre youāre right when people are paid to be wrongā? Damn, youāre really bad at this! š
With all due respect, when your opinion is āyour argument AND the supermajority is wrong because I said soā, you donāt leave an opening for anything more constructive.
I donāt make a good Soyjak