That’s precisely my point. Tell Lemmy you’re a leftist but not vegan? They’ll call you a murderer. Tell them you’re a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I’ll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you’re a liberal? You’re practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you’re a conservative and they leave you alone.
No matter what I do, I will never be leftist enough for people to be satisfied. The further left I let myself get pushed, the more vitriol I get for not being even lefter. Apparently suggesting people vote for Kamala Harris to prevent a Trump victory makes me a genocide enabler. On top of that, if I make even one step backward, much like Mozilla deciding they don’t have the resources to moderate an entire Mastodon instance on top of everything else they do, I might as well have joined the enemy. But if I stop agreeing with them at all, suddenly I’m not worth harassing. It’s enough to push a boy right, it really is.
I want to be a good person. I do. But if my choices are don’t do that or be seen in public agreeing with leftists, especially if leftists are in earshot… it’s a tougher call than I’d hoped.
The more I advocate for unions, the more I volunteer at food banks, the more I encourage people to look into things like alternative voting systems that could break us out of the two-party system, the more I look like a juicy recruit to radical leftists, and the more criticism I get for not destroying everything in my path in pursuit of an anarcho-communist utopia in which personal belongings are a distant memory and vigilante justice reigns supreme. I still hold left-leaning values, but that “utopia” is something I will fight tooth and nail against. Leftists as an organization (a leaderless organization, but an organization all the same) have made it clear that if I’m not 110% for them, I’m against them, and that the way to not be harassed is to not act like I’m for them but partway.
I’m still going to volunteer at homeless shelters and pick up trash on the side of the road and secretly try to start a union at any store I work at, I’m still going to look for the most progressive candidate I can in every local and general election. I’m gay myself and apart from the annual potluck, I’ve never stepped foot in a church in the last five years, but if a leftist asks, I’m a devout Catholic, I think being gay is sinful, and I voted for Trump. Maybe then they’ll stop calling me a Nazi.
anarcho-communist utopia in which personal belongings are a distant memory and vigilante justice reigns supreme
Literally nobody, not even anarchocommunists, like me, want personal belongings to not be a thing. Marxism 101 includes a section on personal vs private property, the notion of wanting to abolish private property is not with the modern understanding of private property, marx made the clear distinction between private and personal property, and it’s quite simple, personal property is stuff that you own, private property is stuff that generates capital.
I don’t get why people keep thinking anyone would believe something this stupid, like do you actually think we’re going to take your toothbrushes?
but that “utopia” is something I will fight tooth and nail against
You clearly don’t even know what you’re fighting against. That’s probably why you get made fun of in socialist circles. Read theory, all you have is a clear strawman and whining that people make fun of you.
I’m a devout Catholic, I think being gay is sinful, and I voted for Trump. Maybe then they’ll stop calling me a Nazi.
Do you actually think we’re going to take your toothbrushes?
Not in the sense that they’ll all be confiscated, but in the sense that multiple anarcho-communists have told me that under their utopia, theft will not be a crime. Obviously, if someone stole something, they must have needed it more than you. They’ve also told me that under anarcho-communism, there will be no state, thus no laws, thus no justice system. If you are wronged, your only recourse is vigilantism – a point I can’t help but notice you quoted but conveniently glossed over. Almost like you’re trying to make a strawman or something. But I digress. Vigilantism doesn’t work (I’d be happy to explain why if you have trouble with that as well) and I’m still waiting to hear a single anarcho-communist propose an alternative.
This is you proving the point made in the comic.
That is you proving you did not read any part of my comment except the last two sentences. Does leftism only count if I do it in public? Does saying I voted for Trump to get people whose definition of conservative is “anyone right of Ursula K. LeGuin” to stop treating me like a soul who needs saving make me a bigot despite my actions to the contrary?
Not in the sense that they’ll all be confiscated, but in the sense that multiple anarcho-communists have told me that under their utopia, theft will not be a crime.
source: dude just trust me
They were probably saying there will be no reason to steal because resources will be plentiful, not that you can just take other peoples stuff and it’s fine.
They’ve also told me that under anarcho-communism, there will be no state, thus no laws, thus no justice system.
no they didn’t, a state is just a monopoly on violence in a given region, there will still be law and order through democracy and consensus, it’ll just be horizontally handled by the community.
If you are wronged, your only recourse is vigilantism – a point I can’t help but notice you quoted but conveniently glossed over
this is just nonsense, we just believe these things would be handled communally, not by authority, but by democracy. it got glossed over because it’s just as much nonsense as the toothbrush thing.
But I digress. Vigilantism doesn’t work (I’d be happy to explain why if you have trouble with that as well) and I’m still waiting to hear a single anarcho-communist propose an alternative.
democratically run courts with rotations, honestly there are hundreds of ideas, google it. Nobodies idea is what you’re saying, it’s just a strawman.
Does leftism only count if I do it in public?
No but it means if you do it wrong you’ll get made fun of. You’ve clearly never even read a single book on anarchism and have strong opinions about it.
If your opinions are based on complete nonsense strawmen, that explains why you keep getting made fun of.
The point of the comic is that absolute buffoons say they’re getting bullied and that’s the reason they’re getting pushed right, like you. It has no basis in reality, people are just criticizing things they should criticize, and since you don’t bother to do the necessary reading to understand why people are criticizing you, you just go “the left is mean wahhh”
The fact that your arguments are covered in socialism101 courses shows that you’ve never even bothered to make an attempt. Do you actually think socialists are so dumb that they never thought of these arguments? Do you actually think marx or kropotkin never came up with “but what if someone murders someone” on their own? They wrote all these books and they get dunked on by a guy who says “well what if someone takes my stuff?” in your imaginary world.
But that’s besides the point. What I want is to be left alone. I want to get on with my life without someone demanding to know whether I believe Israel should exist or not, because both sides in that conflict are committing war crimes and the idea of reading seventeen Wikipedia pages about the historical conflict of those two countries so that I can choose which side to support and more effectively defend myself in Internet arguments I never asked to have doesn’t really appeal. I want to be able to not fully commit to being vegan quite yet without someone helpfully telling me I’m a murderer. I want to look at memes without somehow getting into a discussion about economic systems. Most of all I want to be able to want that without being called a fascist.
The ideas leftists present are good ideas. But I would like there to be a space I can go every now and again where I don’t have to think about them.
…he literally said firefox was better than most in the post? I don’t understand why you believe mozilla to be above criticism just because they’re better than google
and why bother criticizing a company so laughably awful as google, try saying you use chrome on a post, everyone will recommend you switch.
Perhaps I should rephrase. They attack Mozilla (and users of Firefox) infinitely more than Google (and users of various Google products). I heard it said after Mozilla introduced their opt-out privacy-respecting ad tracking that users should “move to a more privacy-friendly browser like Google Chrome”.
This is true of Lemmy’s political stance in general. Tell them you’re a leftist but not vegan? They’ll call you a murderer. Tell them you’re a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I’ll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you’re a liberal? You’re practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you’re a conservative and they leave you alone.
I’ve never seen self-proclaimed leftists hurl more vitriol than when an openly-socialist labor organizer in my union said they were for freedom of speech (for humans) and generally supportive of firearm ownership. Absolutely wild reaction.
But don’t you understand? Any language or policy the right adopts, we must abandon, even if, on its face (if not in the right wing implementation of it), it’s something we agree with. Otherwise how will we identify and shun right wingers? They could be hiding anywhere, you know.
It’s like when Bush Jr. pushed for the adoption of reading programs across America that focused on phonics, so people took a rebellious stance and taught kids “balanced reading” which taught kids to memorize words rather than the sounds that make up words.
The result: an epidemic of illiteracy to own the Republicans. Bush was/is a warmongering piece of shit but he was right about phonics being the correct way to learn reading.
fine, then i guess i’m not a leftist. personally i prefer talking to people who have thought their ideas for what the future of society should look like all the way through before sending threats of losing literally all of their friends to people who don’t believe in it.
oh for fuck’s sake throw the whole fediverse away. yall are brain dead.
What happens when vigilantes nail the wrong guy due to mistaken identity or misunderstanding? What happens when they start going after people who might commit crimes? Why do you think letting people appoint themselves judge, jury, and executioner whenever they feel like it is a good idea?
When the communist utopia comes to pass, I for one don’t want to constantly be watching my back in case I happen to have similar looks or speech patterns (or tastes in media!) to somebody who raped somebody else. That kind of goes against the whole all-in-this-together part of communism.
Snidely paraphrased: Snitching to cops is nazi collaboration, but vigilante-ism is cool and works. The state is bad, except when I’m the state. I wanna be the boot and the hero
Last I checked, people who voted for Kamala Harris but remained friends with people who didn’t weren’t going out at night to tell the secret police where some filthy Jews live.
That’s a completely meaningless claim, but suppose I take it at face value. What would it mean for a middle class citizen to “collaborate” with the department of defense or a fortune 500 company?
If you say “buying from them” in the case of the latter, I hope you don’t buy anything from either Walmart or Amazon, at all, ever, and use a totally deGoogled Android phone and a secondhand librebooted Thinkpad as your only computing devices.
People aren’t required to abruptly stop talking about the subject of their posts to also remind people that other companies are shit also. That’s absurd.
This must be the tech version of having to type up a 10,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats before you can type a single word of criticism against the Democratic party.
The only thing you need to know about how Lemmings think about politics is that they bash Mozilla more than Google.
What are you talking about? This is the Firefox community, not many people are going to stop mid-post to say “BTW I hate Google more”
… BTW, I hate Google more.
And you’re incorrect: the community for leaving Google is more than four times the size of the community about Google.
BTW I hate Google more
One can and should critique a company when they make mistakes.
Lemmings are bashing Mozilla because they are expecting better from them, while I don’t even expect Google to not be evil
That’s precisely my point. Tell Lemmy you’re a leftist but not vegan? They’ll call you a murderer. Tell them you’re a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I’ll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you’re a liberal? You’re practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you’re a conservative and they leave you alone.
No matter what I do, I will never be leftist enough for people to be satisfied. The further left I let myself get pushed, the more vitriol I get for not being even lefter. Apparently suggesting people vote for Kamala Harris to prevent a Trump victory makes me a genocide enabler. On top of that, if I make even one step backward, much like Mozilla deciding they don’t have the resources to moderate an entire Mastodon instance on top of everything else they do, I might as well have joined the enemy. But if I stop agreeing with them at all, suddenly I’m not worth harassing. It’s enough to push a boy right, it really is.
I want to be a good person. I do. But if my choices are don’t do that or be seen in public agreeing with leftists, especially if leftists are in earshot… it’s a tougher call than I’d hoped.
https://lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz/post/44877769
You know what, no, I will anyway.
The more I advocate for unions, the more I volunteer at food banks, the more I encourage people to look into things like alternative voting systems that could break us out of the two-party system, the more I look like a juicy recruit to radical leftists, and the more criticism I get for not destroying everything in my path in pursuit of an anarcho-communist utopia in which personal belongings are a distant memory and vigilante justice reigns supreme. I still hold left-leaning values, but that “utopia” is something I will fight tooth and nail against. Leftists as an organization (a leaderless organization, but an organization all the same) have made it clear that if I’m not 110% for them, I’m against them, and that the way to not be harassed is to not act like I’m for them but partway.
I’m still going to volunteer at homeless shelters and pick up trash on the side of the road and secretly try to start a union at any store I work at, I’m still going to look for the most progressive candidate I can in every local and general election. I’m gay myself and apart from the annual potluck, I’ve never stepped foot in a church in the last five years, but if a leftist asks, I’m a devout Catholic, I think being gay is sinful, and I voted for Trump. Maybe then they’ll stop calling me a Nazi.
Literally nobody, not even anarchocommunists, like me, want personal belongings to not be a thing. Marxism 101 includes a section on personal vs private property, the notion of wanting to abolish private property is not with the modern understanding of private property, marx made the clear distinction between private and personal property, and it’s quite simple, personal property is stuff that you own, private property is stuff that generates capital.
I don’t get why people keep thinking anyone would believe something this stupid, like do you actually think we’re going to take your toothbrushes?
You clearly don’t even know what you’re fighting against. That’s probably why you get made fun of in socialist circles. Read theory, all you have is a clear strawman and whining that people make fun of you.
This is you proving the point made by the comic.
Not in the sense that they’ll all be confiscated, but in the sense that multiple anarcho-communists have told me that under their utopia, theft will not be a crime. Obviously, if someone stole something, they must have needed it more than you. They’ve also told me that under anarcho-communism, there will be no state, thus no laws, thus no justice system. If you are wronged, your only recourse is vigilantism – a point I can’t help but notice you quoted but conveniently glossed over. Almost like you’re trying to make a strawman or something. But I digress. Vigilantism doesn’t work (I’d be happy to explain why if you have trouble with that as well) and I’m still waiting to hear a single anarcho-communist propose an alternative.
That is you proving you did not read any part of my comment except the last two sentences. Does leftism only count if I do it in public? Does saying I voted for Trump to get people whose definition of conservative is “anyone right of Ursula K. LeGuin” to stop treating me like a soul who needs saving make me a bigot despite my actions to the contrary?
source: dude just trust me
They were probably saying there will be no reason to steal because resources will be plentiful, not that you can just take other peoples stuff and it’s fine.
no they didn’t, a state is just a monopoly on violence in a given region, there will still be law and order through democracy and consensus, it’ll just be horizontally handled by the community.
this is just nonsense, we just believe these things would be handled communally, not by authority, but by democracy. it got glossed over because it’s just as much nonsense as the toothbrush thing.
democratically run courts with rotations, honestly there are hundreds of ideas, google it. Nobodies idea is what you’re saying, it’s just a strawman.
No but it means if you do it wrong you’ll get made fun of. You’ve clearly never even read a single book on anarchism and have strong opinions about it.
If your opinions are based on complete nonsense strawmen, that explains why you keep getting made fun of.
The point of the comic is that absolute buffoons say they’re getting bullied and that’s the reason they’re getting pushed right, like you. It has no basis in reality, people are just criticizing things they should criticize, and since you don’t bother to do the necessary reading to understand why people are criticizing you, you just go “the left is mean wahhh”
The fact that your arguments are covered in socialism101 courses shows that you’ve never even bothered to make an attempt. Do you actually think socialists are so dumb that they never thought of these arguments? Do you actually think marx or kropotkin never came up with “but what if someone murders someone” on their own? They wrote all these books and they get dunked on by a guy who says “well what if someone takes my stuff?” in your imaginary world.
Based on my conversations with other self-proclaimed anarcho-communists in this very same thread, and that exchange mirroring the experience of every other anarcho-communist I’ve talked to on Lemmy apart from you, yeah, I kinda did.
But that’s besides the point. What I want is to be left alone. I want to get on with my life without someone demanding to know whether I believe Israel should exist or not, because both sides in that conflict are committing war crimes and the idea of reading seventeen Wikipedia pages about the historical conflict of those two countries so that I can choose which side to support and more effectively defend myself in Internet arguments I never asked to have doesn’t really appeal. I want to be able to not fully commit to being vegan quite yet without someone helpfully telling me I’m a murderer. I want to look at memes without somehow getting into a discussion about economic systems. Most of all I want to be able to want that without being called a fascist.
The ideas leftists present are good ideas. But I would like there to be a space I can go every now and again where I don’t have to think about them.
Thank you for misinterpreting my post and calling me a racist, @Communist. Unfortunately I don’t feel obligated to explain myself to you.
I did not call you racist.
But you’re using the same argument they’re using. I don’t see what I misinterpreted here, it’s literally identical to the comic.
Can you point me to an example of that happening here?
Here’s one example of a mega-upvoted post that is critical of Mozilla:
https://lemmy.ml/post/13081759/9195853
I think it’s indicative not only of the prevalence of the view but also the quality (or lack thereof) of the arguments backing the view.
…he literally said firefox was better than most in the post? I don’t understand why you believe mozilla to be above criticism just because they’re better than google
and why bother criticizing a company so laughably awful as google, try saying you use chrome on a post, everyone will recommend you switch.
Where did that post indicate that Google was better?
Perhaps I should rephrase. They attack Mozilla (and users of Firefox) infinitely more than Google (and users of various Google products). I heard it said after Mozilla introduced their opt-out privacy-respecting ad tracking that users should “move to a more privacy-friendly browser like Google Chrome”.
This is true of Lemmy’s political stance in general. Tell them you’re a leftist but not vegan? They’ll call you a murderer. Tell them you’re a leftist but not an anarcho-communist? Yeah I’ll bet you love capitalism and the human suffering it causes, you Chauvinist pig! Tell them you’re a liberal? You’re practically a Nazi collaborator! (All things I have actually heard Lemmings say.) But tell them you’re a conservative and they leave you alone.
I’ve never seen self-proclaimed leftists hurl more vitriol than when an openly-socialist labor organizer in my union said they were for freedom of speech (for humans) and generally supportive of firearm ownership. Absolutely wild reaction.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
But don’t you understand? Any language or policy the right adopts, we must abandon, even if, on its face (if not in the right wing implementation of it), it’s something we agree with. Otherwise how will we identify and shun right wingers? They could be hiding anywhere, you know.
It’s like when Bush Jr. pushed for the adoption of reading programs across America that focused on phonics, so people took a rebellious stance and taught kids “balanced reading” which taught kids to memorize words rather than the sounds that make up words.
The result: an epidemic of illiteracy to own the Republicans. Bush was/is a warmongering piece of shit but he was right about phonics being the correct way to learn reading.
what do you think leftist means?
In past when I have expressed this view I have been helpfully informed that I love human suffering
this is not an answer. if you don’t want to abolish capital and the state, you aren’t a leftist.
fine, then i guess i’m not a leftist. personally i prefer talking to people who have thought their ideas for what the future of society should look like all the way through before sending threats of losing literally all of their friends to people who don’t believe in it.
… vigilantism works though.
oh for fuck’s sake throw the whole fediverse away. yall are brain dead.
What happens when vigilantes nail the wrong guy due to mistaken identity or misunderstanding? What happens when they start going after people who might commit crimes? Why do you think letting people appoint themselves judge, jury, and executioner whenever they feel like it is a good idea?
When the communist utopia comes to pass, I for one don’t want to constantly be watching my back in case I happen to have similar looks or speech patterns (or tastes in media!) to somebody who raped somebody else. That kind of goes against the whole all-in-this-together part of communism.
Snidely paraphrased: Snitching to cops is nazi collaboration, but vigilante-ism is cool and works. The state is bad, except when I’m the state. I wanna be the boot and the hero
Ah, but you see, snitching to cops is bad because they serve corrupt power structures, and those definitely won’t exist under communism.
where is the lie?
Last I checked, people who voted for Kamala Harris but remained friends with people who didn’t weren’t going out at night to tell the secret police where some filthy Jews live.
first, i don’t believe you ever checked. second, i don’t think that’s literally what’s happening anyweher in the us, so you’re tilting at windmills.
No, it’s what Nazi collaborators were doing. Since apparently liberals are that. That was what we were talking about, right?
modern fascists are wallstreet and the pentagon. collaboration looks different 100 years later.
Oh my god.
That’s a completely meaningless claim, but suppose I take it at face value. What would it mean for a middle class citizen to “collaborate” with the department of defense or a fortune 500 company?
If you say “buying from them” in the case of the latter, I hope you don’t buy anything from either Walmart or Amazon, at all, ever, and use a totally deGoogled Android phone and a secondhand librebooted Thinkpad as your only computing devices.
People aren’t required to abruptly stop talking about the subject of their posts to also remind people that other companies are shit also. That’s absurd.
This must be the tech version of having to type up a 10,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats before you can type a single word of criticism against the Democratic party.