Look, maybe they just don’t know how this will play out. By all means let them trade their vote away for teh feelz and directly condemn an entire countries residents to death.
Trust me bro, they care a ton about Palestine, they aren’t using civilian deaths to leverage any political bullshit I swear.
Single-issue voters are ignorant to begin with, but failing to help stop another Trump presidency isn’t the moral high ground. If you’re in that group there’s no point polishing your halo, because you are shitting on it.
So genocide is a single issue to you, like school vouchers or fema funding? I think that says a lot about you. None of it good.
Single-issue voters are ignorant
I think killing is wrong. Feel free to call that ignorant.
Trump told bibi to "hurry up and finish the job. He will kill 10x as many Palestinians and say they deserved it.
He has also promised to “round up millions of illegals” in the US and put them in camps, itself a genocide. He will undoubtedly kill thousands doing it.
He also stated that he will use the military to eliminate " the enemy within," who he specially called leftists like yourself. He will kill people in the process.
Your choice should be pretty clear if you abhor killing.
You know how law works right?
Say a guy is committing treason and clearly want to end democracy? As a modern state with a functionning justice system, you throw him in jail.
Say the people in charge are commiting conspiracy to commit genocide (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1091). You throw them in jail.
Anyway, what you do not do is voting for the later because the former promised he was going to be worst.
Fix your goddamn country, idiot.
Yes, my choice is for a party which doesn’t support killing innocent people. The Dems still have time to campaign on that platform.
I agree that one party has said that they are even more pro killing innocent people. And I don’t agree with that. That’s because I don’t agree with killing innocent people at all.There is no level of killing innocent people that I’m okay with.
What about all the innocent women who are dying in our country because of who trump appointed to the supreme court and the result was the overturning roe vs wade?
Do those lives matter at all to you? Women bleeding to death in their cars because hospitals refuse to treat a miscarriage.
What about the kids who get massacred in school shootings because Trump and people like him won’t support increased gun control legislation?
What about all the innocent people of color who have been killed by police? Do they matter to you?
If trump gets into the office not only will the Palestinian people be far worse off, so will every group I mentioned above and more.
You said you are against killing innocent people, then why dont you care about the women, children, and people of color who are getting killed in our country needlessly?
There’s far more destruction for far more people if trump gets into office. If you want to double down, go for it, because I think it’s worth reminding people just how much death in our country can attributed to Trump. Every woman who dies from preventable pregnancy complications. Trump directly contributed to that.
If trump gets into the office not only will the Palestinian people be far worse off, so will every group I mentioned above and more.
There is no level of killing innocent people that I’m okay with.
I’ll support a political party which does not want to make people worse off because of their identity.
Just say you like trump ffs
I don’t like killing innocent people. Which is something Trump will do, so I don’t like him.
I checked your post history, I don’t care much for you, either.
Then you’re making an emotional decision based on refusing to accept anything less than perfect, and since perfection is not an option in this election, and because not voting is essentially a vote that trump doesn’t have to counter, abstaining voters are proportionally more helpful to trump than they are to Harris.
Jezz she should have thought about that before committing conspiracy to genocide.
Sorry, who? And what?
Playing dumb, do you?
Then you’re making an emotional decision based on refusing to accept anything less than perfect
You can continue making practical decisions based on accepting killing innocent people. I’ll be over here waiting for people like you to notice what you’re doing. Maybe when you are one of the innocent people being killed you will decide it’s not acceptable?
You need to realise that the world is not black and white - it exists in shades of grey where nobody gets everything they want, and have to accept compromise for the greater good. You seem to be stuck in a mental state where you can’t bring yourself to vote for a party that isn’t offering a perfect world to you, and you must get past that and look at the bigger picture, and the impact of disgruntled blue voters staying home in protest. If trump wins, your protest will have contributed to that win, and you’ll have to live with that.
If trump wins, your protest will have contributed to that win, and you’ll have to live with that.
No, I promise you, I won’t. Me living with being in a world where killing innocent people is politically acceptable is far more harmful than the guilt I will feel on Trump winning. This is because my protest is not contributing anything to that win whatsoever. You might as well ask me to feel unhappy that the moon has craters when I - as far as I can tell - am not a large mass hurtling through space that has hit the moon.
If Trump wins, then that will simply show that enough Americans want to hurt innocent people. As is shown by America being a country which finds itself unable to strongly counter IDF terrorism visited upon Palestinians.
I will be sad, but I won’t be completely surprised.
I say it again: my protest will have no effect on Trump winning.
My protest will also have no effect on innocent lives being taken. This is because we live in a morally grey world, where people can rationalise harming innocent people as an acceptable byproduct of doing business. After all, the price of compromise for me getting a better candidate is allowing brown strangers to die. Doesn’t that sound great? I deserve more than them. I’m not brown, after all! It’s their fault for being born where they are.
And, finally, my protest will have no effect on Trump winning.
By “less then perfect” they mean this:
K while everyone else at the adult table discusses things you can play with your imaginary options.
Every country kills innocent people. It happens.
Nice war crime apology you got there.
Where is yours?
Oh, you aren’t sorry about the war crimes your government has accomplished?
Typical.
Thanks. As I said to the commenter above. We are sitting at the adult table. Come join us once you realize everyone has blood on their hands and the world isn’t black and white.
Look buddy I do not want to have a quiet adult conversation with somebody who states genocide is a necessity.
Not only do I care about myself too much to sit with heartless scums, but also my legal liability might be at stake.
Ah yes, the very famous legal defense of “BuT EverYBoDy doEs iT”.
Nuremberg court not convinced. Defense denied. Bring the rope.
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Every country kills innocent people. It happens.
Thanks for admitting this.
imaginary options.
Not respecting a human world which purposefully kills the innocent is not ‘imaginary’.
Not even trying to minimize the amount of killing in the human world because it won’t reach 0 seems like you don’t actually care about human life at all.
That’s interesting. I have to support a party which supports killing innocent people to be against killing innocent people.
Wow, humans sure are good at rationalising things in a nonsensical way. No wonder they’ve made such a fucked up world.
Where where these people of moral conscience when Bernie had a shot?
it’s not like this shitshow sprung up overnight.
I guarantee you that if you polled these morons they’d know next to nothing about Israel, or Palestine, their respective histories, or the conflict, or the players, or foreign policy, or the USAs influence in the region.
These people got hooked on this conflict via tiktok, probably funded by Russian propaganda machines and are too stupid to realize it.
A truly black and white, good VS evil war is actually raging right now in Ukraine, yet these morons are silent on that one. I wonder why 🤔
Hey, they were having brunch.
They most likely voted for bernie
Doubtful. They’re the kind of people who say that Bernie is a shitlib and controlled opposition.
I did, but most of his supporters did not follow through.
I really wouldn’t bet on it.
They voted for Hillary, because the party decided it was her turn and made everyone else drop out and endorse her.
That’s right. And then they conveniently forgot about the following midterms.
I just don’t get how people are looking at Harris’ stance as being pro-genocide. Biden is the President and historically, foreign policy during the tenure of the President by the Vice President doesn’t veer too far off from the President. That said, Harris has absolutely called for investigation into the suffering of civilians in the conflict.
Congress sets the budgetary amount of aid to direct to Israel and the President distributes the money via their diplomatic channels. There are very few options for the President to just suspend funding, which Biden has done twice for weapons under the rules established within 10 USC § 362 (a)(1)
Of the amounts made available to the Department of Defense, none may be used for any training, equipment, or other assistance for a unit of a foreign security force if the Secretary of Defense has credible information that the unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.
But outside that, there’s very little the President can do once Congress approves funding and that funding has been signed into law. This is why an independent channel investigation is required and is exactly what Harris has called for. This would allow the the US Government to establish their own inquiry into the human abuses. This would give the required evidence to cancel funding under Title XII authority. But none of that can happen overnight. It’s not an easy path to override the will of Congress.
On the opposite side, Trump has indicated that he will absolutely turn a blind eye to the whole thing and allow Israel to determine solely the “best” course of action for their current conflict. Trump has literally stated in his rallies:
From the start, Harris has worked to tie Israel’s hand behind its back, demanding an immediate cease-fire, always demanding cease-fire
Trump would not see a cease-fire as a required condition for the on-going conflict.
Harris and Democrats historically have called for a two-state solution. Trump’s plan which has been broadly adopted by the Republican party in general would:
- Give Palestinians only about 15% of their original territory
- Jerusalem would become Israel’s undivided capitol, meaning all claims by the Palestinians to the eastern half of the city would be tossed out.
- Allow Palestinians to “achieve an independent state” via a means that is not clearly defined in the plan but indicated that Israel would have a final say in that process.
- “No Palestinians or Israelis will be uprooted from their homes” indicating that the territory that Israel has already colonized from their current conflict would become Israel’s.
- Would put Israel and Jordan on equal footing for the administration of al-Haram al-Sharif, which will absolutely ignite a conflict.
- Any territory allocated to Palestinians would have to undergo a four year “wait” period, but there’s no protections from Israel obtaining that territory if done so during conflict. So Israel could provoke someone to fight them and that would give them justification to take the land during this “four year wait period”.
Trump has all but given up completely on a two-state solution. Which means, he’s for a one state solution. And people are fooling themselves if they believe that Trump would seek a “peaceful” one state solution. He has told Netanyahu directly, “Just get it done quickly”. Now we can play a game as what manner is used to “get it done quickly” means, but only idiots are the one’s thinking that doesn’t give a tacit nod to ethic cleansing.
I just have no idea what these people who think Harris is a bad idea for Palestinians are actually thinking. And really, I don’t think they are thinking at all. You have one solution that is long, stupid, and required because we are a nation of laws. And you have the other solution that is “fuck it, firebomb them all and call it done”. It is difficult to imagine that there are truly people this blind and ignorant to this reality. But yet, here we are.
The notion that we might get a 3rd party into office like twenty years from now if we start today, helps nobody if the people we’re trying to help are all eradicated over the next four years. Going down this “third road” only ensures an outcome where we are fifteen years too late to help.
I’m trying to understand how this system works and came across this article from Al Jazeera which, if I’m reading it correctly, is saying that the US did determine gross human rights violations but the Biden administration is refusing to apply the Leahy Law. Doesn’t this mean that Biden does have the authority to stop sending military aid but isn’t, or am I misunderstanding something? Also, aside from Leahy Law why can’t he veto the military aid?
Oh man, this is a doozy. You aren’t wrong but I’ve got to get some sleep. To explain this is A LOT.
The thing is the Leahy Law doesn’t put the power directly in the President’s hands. It grants the vetting process to the Secretary of State. Which is a member of the cabinet of the President. Which I don’t know how familiar you are with how the Executive Office works or not. But Secretary of State Antony Blinken is the one who wields the power to deny Israel’s aid.
There’s Executive Orders (EO) that the President can give but there’s the whole “what if” Blinken quits given an EO and then we have to get the Senate involved which is currently 50-50 on Republicans and Democrats. Which that turns it even more complex and Senators can delay confirmation until after the election or if they’re really bitter, until next year. Which means that everything that requires a Secretary of State would get put on pause.
I get that everyone thinks the President gets to have the final say, but the President orders people around on EOs, which the various Secretaries can just quit if they don’t want to follow them, and then that kicks everything to the Senate. That’s kind of a built in protection in our system of Government to prevent a President becoming a dictator. If a President wants XYZ done and the Secretary thinks that’s bad, they quit and the Senate becomes involved potentially delaying the President forever.
There’s way more background on why Blinken has only stopped two aids and also because of classification reasons, not every stopping of aid can be published, unless the President does so since the President has unilateral authority on classification markings (except for anything related to the name of spies and nuclear bomb designs, that is one of the few things that requires both the President and Congress to sign off on, there’s a few other exceptions as well but I won’t go into them).
But anyways, Blinken is the one who can stop aid. The President could order him, but he could also quit, which means the Senate would get involved, and I can explain why all of that would be messy if you need me to.
why can’t he veto the military aid
The President only has veto power on bills that have passed both the House and the Senate. Once something becomes law, the President “has” to carry it out. There’s a ton of background on “Executive Discretion” and any time the President wants to exercise discretion, Congress can sue, which then brings the matter into the other branch, the Judicial. Plenty of States that would sign on, to a Congressional suit (which that’s a requirement for Congress to sue the President, at least one State has to join in).
So Biden could use Discretion to delay funding, and he’s done that quite a few times, but he can’t just outright NOT pay when the law requires him to do so. That discretion comes from a kind of EO called a “Reviewing Executive Order” and it requires a department to “review” ((insert whatever the topic is)). That’s a delay, but it isn’t a halt. The President has to follow the law as well. So if we have a law that says, “we provide $xxx to Israel’s Iron Dome”, we have to send that money to them at some point.
A lot of the funds that Israel is getting, is funding they secured before the Gaza invasion. There’s been recent upping of that funding that Congress has passed, but that’s been on things called Continuing Resolutions (CR). Republicans in the House (who are the ones who control what the US Budget is) have been using CRs to get choice things enacted. That’s because Republicans in the House have passed rules on how a budget may be formed in the House that are impossible to comply with (which that’s a whole long story). So if Democrats in the House refuse to accept the CRs the Republicans offer, the Government shuts down.
Anyways, that’s been a lot already. If you need me to clear anything up, let me know. But Harris likely wouldn’t have Blinken as Secretary of State, which would fix A WHOLE LOT. But I don’t know, because if the election isn’t kind to Democrats in the Senate and Republicans have a majority in the Senate, they could block Harris’ Sec. of State unless they specifically pledged to support Israel. Now they could absolutely lie about that, but then Congress could also impeach them, but that would cut off aid to Israel for some time as that’s not an easy process to impeach a secretary of state.
This comment needs no be posted and stickied everywhere. I mean everywhere. Thank you for your detailed response and explanation of how the executive works. I’m saving this comment.
Not the person you replied to, but just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write up such an informative answer. I learned quite a few things from it.
In really it’s probably a mix that totals to around 90% of the people making these pronouncements are either bots, paid trolls from enemy nations, nihilists, or the equivalent. The remaining 10% probably have a genuine belief that voting for Harris makes them complicit in the genocide the Israeli government and its military are committing. They’re incorrect, on many levels, but that is probably their genuine belief.
We must always vote for the lesser evil because that’s what the real world is, from the most negative point of view: reducing evil and suffering. We know some of the things we’re doing today will be seen as evil by our progeny. We don’t know others.
A Harris administration will be the most likely to reduce the suffering of Palestinians, the most likely to force the Israeli government and military to end the genocide, and the most likely to make real strides toward middle east peace.
A lot of people like me are just non-americans looking at you people with disgust, Mr. “both-side-are-genocide-anyway”
We must always vote for the lesser evil because that’s what the real world is
Ah, the world is always things getting more evil, the choice is just slower or faster? Sounds shit to me, you can have it.
Woosh
Yes, that’s the sound of things getting worse.
So get off your computer and do something about it instead of lording your morality over the rest of us here.
Get involved with an organization and go physically help in Gaza. Go volunteer your time for your local pro Palestine congressperson. I’ll wait.
Oh no but you’re sitting here pushing propaganda talking points, which you somehow believe is helpful but actually tacitly supports the literal Nazi candidate who calls people vermin. Because that’s the thing that is really helpful.
Oh no but you’re sitting here pushing propaganda talking points
“Killing innocent people is bad” is harmful propaganda? Okay.
If that makes the Dem party look bad, you can’t say it’s my fault. I didn’t conjure up the moral rule that killing is wrong, and nor did I ask any Dem politician to support it.
So get off your computer and do something about it instead of lording your morality over the rest of us here.
You seem to think that saying ‘killing innocent people is bad’ is a ridiculously lofty moral position, one so far out of touch with reality that stating it is in some way worthy of disgust.
And that’s exactly why I say it. Because people need to hear it, because they react to it with disgust, indicating that people don’t really care about the issue.I do, though. Because killing innocent people is wrong. What I do about that is that I have never killed anyone. And, when it happens, I disagree with it. And I keep saying it, even when people get angry that I’m making such a big issue out of something so normalised.
You come off as someone who had the protocols of the elders of Zion read to you in your sleep every night without your knowledge
In really it’s probably a mix that totals to around 90% of the people making these pronouncements are either bots, paid trolls from enemy nations, nihilists, or the equivalent.
All you’re missing is that one magic word
Your world view is pretty self defeating dont you think?
Whereas, and forgive me if I’m mistakenly assuming you’re advocating not voting for Harris, your worldview is just defeating. Every candidate but Harris will ensure that Palestinian suffering increases. Not voting will deny Harris a vote, therefore necessarily increase the odds of someone else winning and Palestinian suffering increasing. Palestinians are saying to vote for Harris. Votjng for a third party (all choices there, by the way, either actively endorse Trump (RFK Jr.) or are funded by Russia (Stein) so supports the genocide of Ukrainians) remove a vote for Harris and increase the odds of Palestinian suffering increasing. There is no scenario where if you’re an American citizen you can be a neutral bystander.
At this point, if you don’t vote for Harris, you’re voting for ethnic cleansing and genocide, quite possibly at home as well as abroad.
Every candidate but Harris will ensure that Palestinian suffering increases.
Harris has not said anything concrete about holding Israel back. Or stopping shipments.
Whereas, and forgive me if I’m mistakenly assuming you’re advocating not voting for Harris, your worldview is just defeating. Every candidate but Harris will ensure that Palestinian suffering increases.
America is a disgusting country. That (https://www.amnestyusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/4.29.2024-NSM-20-AIUSA-submission-re-Israel.pdf) is the best you guys can do?
Do americans have a soul, I wonder? Or is all solely about their 401k? Do you guys laugh and love and stuff or just pretending to have empathy?
I’m torn on how to approach this, i’m left with a couple of options:
A) so Trump would somehow be even less self defeating?
B) are you suggesting we should all spontaneously rise up and overthrow the military industrial complex?
C) if you think this world view is self defeating then:
C.1) you owe some clarifying thoughts as to how you see a measured response to the existing democratic systems as self defeating
C.2) you appear to be making yourself out as someone who idealizes violence and oppression
C.3) you appear to be using contrarian language with the explicit purpose of dragging down the mood of the conversation. Quit that shit
D) Good ol’ not feeding the trolls.
It makes no sense, but have you considered the possibility that most people pushing that narrative are Russian assets trying to get Trump elected?
Amnesty is antisemitic I heard. They side with trump /s
Classic american deflection. Everybody who disagree with their warcrimes is a KGB agent. McCarthism in all his glory
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I just have no idea what these people who think Harris is a bad idea for Palestinians are actually thinking. And really, I don’t think they are thinking at all.
They live in cloud cuckoo land where Biden/Harris can just tell Netanyahu “Fuck off and shove a grenade up your arse, you genocidal maniac” and that would actually work.
Furnishing this guy weapons was illegal under US and international laws.
They believe in Schrodinger’s Jew: that Jews simultaneously control US politics and that US Presidents control Israel.
No they believe that US politicians are bribed and blackmailed and they don’t want to support those politicians. Either way I don’t want to vote for the candidates supporting and paying for genocide.
Must be awesome to live such a privileged life that that’s the only thing you have to care about in this election cycle.
Women’s healthcare issues? LGBTQ rights? Interracial marriages? The US economy? The environment? Kids’ lives? Nah, you only care about Palestinian people. Well done you! Golf claps for you.
You only care about your fellow american and the rest of us can be sacrificed so you can have gay marriage. Scumbag.
What the hell is wrong with you ? Seriously.
Most of Israel’s weapons come from the US. It’s very well possible for the US congress/government to say “no more weapons if you use them for agression”.
Biden tried just slowing weapon shipments earlier on and Rs and some Ds rammed a bill through saying nope, no slowdowns on these shipments allowed.
Biden tried just slowing weapon shipments earlier on and Rs and some Ds rammed a bill through saying nope, no slowdowns on these shipments allowed.
When you have a racist right-wing party, and a right-wing party that supports killing innocents, I am not as enthused to vote as I would be if there were a clear choice between them.
Oh so you support racism?
Wow, stoned people really do say ridiculous things.
You said there is no clear choice between. A party that supports killing innocents and racism. And a party that supports killing innocents. It’s not hard math.
Maybe we can establish a UN protectorate over you guys since “both sides are doing genocide”.
Nooooo!!! Anything other than perfect support at all times for everything Netanyahu does is Trump support from Russia! Every lemmy genocide supporter says so!
I just don’t get how people are looking at Harris’ stance as being pro-genocide.
“Now that you know I don’t listen to fuckall outside of my own bubble, sit down while I lecture you for several pages”
The two-state solution is a boondoggle.
There can only be a one state solution.
So make a choice: Israel or Palestine.
So make a choice: Israel or Palestine.
You say that like the choice hasn’t already been made without the input of the voters.
What should happen to Palestinians if Israel is chosen? What should happen to Israelis if Palestine is chosen?
I by say we find land for each of them someplace in the US, build infrastructure and housing, evacuate Jerusalem and bulldoze it.
I’m not who you replied to but I like the idea of a single new country for both Palestinians and Israelis. I think this would avoid the ethnostate issue.
Ultimately I think the only way forward is to aim for peaceful coexistence between the two groups.
Great idea! Maybe we could look to history to find the last time that Jews and Muslims lived peacefully together in a single state, and name the new country whatever that is.
Hmmm… Looks like in the 1900s there was a country called Palestine where Muslims and Jews live equally. Let’s get rid of Israel and Palestine, and replace them both with Palestine.
There has never been a country called Palestine. What are you talking about?
There are more Arabs living in Israel than there are jews living in all the current Arab nations combined.
In other words : it’s not so simple to solve
Palestine,[i] officially the State of Palestine,[ii][e] is a country
Isn’t the issue of a single country that the Palestinian population is much higher than the Israeli population, so if there were a single democracy, it would mean that Palestinians would basically be fully in charge?
I think this is why a federated or two state solution is often suggested. Both parties need at least some level of autonomy.
Isn’t the issue of a single country that the Palestinian population is much higher than the Israeli population, so if there were a single democracy, it would mean that Palestinians would basically be fully in charge?
Should we segregate America just because some minorities are outnumbered?
No, Gaza+ west bank are a little smaller than Israel in terms of population
Israel has made it clear that it wants to exterminate Palestinians, and is literally in the process of doing so right now.
Palestinians are not genocidal. They don’t want to exterminate Israelis. They just want to be able to go home and stop being killed and starved and tortured.
Israelis can assimilate into Palestine and stop trying to make a Jewish ethnostate. Palestine can be one multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religious democracy.
Palestinians are not genocidal. They don’t want to exterminate Israelis.
Even if some or most do wish to exterminate, this is arguably understandable. How many bombs would have to fall on you and your family before you were extremely angry? Maybe even, we could say, rationally angry?
The two-state solution is a boondoggle.
Better tell that to China, or do you know better than an AES state?
What do you think “critical support” means?
I think it’s one of those weasel words some leftists use so they can ignore their own hypocrisy while they moralize like the evangelical Christians they were raised as.
So you don’t know what it means.
Critical support means supporting AES countries against the capitalist hegemon despite still having criticisms of some of their decisions. I don’t have to think every single decision they make is perfect because I don’t moralize about my politics.
What you’re talking about is dogmatism, i.e. taking uncritical moral positions and then denouncing any deviation. Mao harshly criticized this in On Contradiction and On Practice.
Harris and Bernie are both 100% pro genocide. Just at a slower pace than Trump, who will more explicitly fully support Iran war. Bernie is 100% correct that Trump is worse, but any position that declares Hamas as more evil than IDF, “Israel has a right to defend itself platitude”, is a pro genocide position, because to Israel, every child and hospital is a Hamas target.
You can always leave the country. The biggest leverage you have over your country is you staying there and keep paying taxes. There is always a choice.
Except your money doesn’t fund the US federal government. The federal government funds everyone with its money.
You can’t tax back money that hasn’t been created first
Which is happening in Israel: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-22080/israel-emigration-gaza-war
And is happening in Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
And it should happen way more in the US. I genuinely don’t understand how can you be american and sleep at night.
I feel the same way about Guatemalans (just kidding, that would be racist.)(also; fuck you and the shitty cliche you rode in on 🫶)
When you have a country where child poverty in some states is miserable, where workers protections in some states are miserable, where education is often miserable, and where this produces people who vote for misery, I guess you just get used to being surrounded by misery.
How is it you expect them to escape the cycle of poverty lmfao
“More oppression would surely make us rich!”
Nice solutions. Fucking troll lol.
It does happen. I took my family out of there. I was fortunate to have a job that supported me working fully remote and dual citizenship. It’s still been less than breezy.
Hey look, Bernie right on it. Again.
You think he ever gets tired of being right all the time?
He probably gets tired of so many others being more popular and more incorrect.
We need a whole senate of inter generational Bernies.
“Even worse”, eh Bernie. Perhaps don’t milquetoast the risk, huh?
He’s starting to sound like a Green Party voter.
Bernie was against a ceasefire for at least three months. He claimed Israel has the right to defend themselves.
Bernie is responsible for manufacturing the consent that let the genocide continue this long.
Now it is coming back to bite the Democrats. And all Bernie can say is “Trump is worse”. Take a hike old man.
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I still can’t believe how stupid they are, thinking that making sure the Trump gets elected, it somehow means they are “doing something about genocide”, ha ha ha!
One solution to this would the Dem party being clearly opposed to killing innocent people. That would be nice.
Why’s it matter. The repubs aren’t opposed to it so your argument is useless.
Yeah it’s a common trait of all americans, they like genocide.
It’s how they got their country.
Scum country.
Bernie was against a ceasefire for at least three months.
Israel is a very odd country, as it seems to be fuelled by killing innocent people and stealing their land illegally. People say that the country would disappear, and all its citizens, if a stop was put to that.
Yes, Trump is even worse. But killing innocent people is still so bad that I am harmed by it being politically acceptable.
If politics is killing innocent people more nicely (‘yeah, that’s bad, but it just happens’) or more nastily (‘haw haw stupid children’), I no longer care about politics.
Let’s say Trump gets elected, and ten years from now, some kid asks you, “What did you do to prevent this?”
Are you going to tell them you just didn’t care enough to bother?
Why wait ten years? What did you do for the last year to prevent the genocide?
ten years from now, some kid asks you
Ten years from now, a Palestinian child asks you, but they never existed, because their parents were killed.
The non voters will tell the children that letting Palestine be destroyed was worth it. That participating in genocide wasn’t that bad.
Drag advocates for the genociders now?
Kamala has a chance in slowing down the israel-hamas war and hopefully stopping it. While Trump wants to accelerate it. Choosing one candidate gives us a chance to turn things around, or at least slow down in order to turn around. The other candidate will immediate exterminate everybody in Palestine
She had a chance for the last year. She talked and did nothing.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spending-8e6e5033f7a1334bf6e35f86e7040e14
And it’s not just about Palestine either. A Trump presidency also means genocide for queer people in America, and a fascist role model for the rest of the world. Plus, Trump’s climate plan amounts to omnicide. We need to get Harris in the white house. This election could be the final chance for us to avert the end of life as we know it on earth.
You really want her to get immunity for her conspiracy to commit genocide don’t you?
In that same 10 year, some kid asks, what did liberals do to prevent this during Biden’s term.
You can respond we were at brunch we didn’t notice what was going on.
I’m going to point at the Green Party, one of the 3 major parties in the current election, and at the 3 or 4 smaller parties that are gaining traction, then I am going to explain to them that 10 years ago, the country was deeply gripped by a plutocratic fascist duopoly and I did what was necessary to combat that fascism while others accepted it and pledged to it because it was in their best interest to just fall in line.
Then I will encourage them never to kiss the ring of fascism and genocide in order to preserve their own personal feelings of security.
You heartless liberals think that sacrificing thousands of Palestinian lives in the here and now is worth it in order to have a chance at a Green Party presidency maybe in 30 years. No! Genocide is never an acceptable cost of doing business. Stop being complicit in genocide! Vote for Harris.
Harris is the one doing the genocide.
Stop being complicit in genocide! Vote for Harris.
If Harris were pledging to reign in Israel from killing innocent people, I would wholeheartedly agree with this.
The president and I are working around the clock every day to get that ceasefire deal done
- Kamala Harris
now is the time to get a ceasefire deal and get the hostage deal done.
- Kamala Harris
We’re not going to stop in terms of putting that pressure on Israel and in the region including Arab leaders
- Kamala Harris
it is time for this war to end and end in a way where Israel is secure, all the hostages are released, the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can exercise their right to freedom, dignity and self-determination.
- Kamala Harris
Thank you for agreeing.
I agree that you posted something that does not indicate that killing innocents will stop.
The one who is steadfast pro-genocide…?
Am I missing something here?
Harris cant answer a question to save her life, but an answer she has given over and over IM TALKING… is that she unconditionally condones and supports the genocide.
one of the 3 major parties in the current election
Call it what you want, but the green party has no chance of making an impact on the outcome of this election except as a spoiler candidate.
I did what was necessary to combat that fascism
And by that you mean voting for the only non-fascist candidate with a chance of winning the election, right?
These liberals voting for the green party think that letting a genocide happen now is an acceptable cost of doing business if it maybe leads to a Green presidency in 30 years. They’re willing to be complicit in Trump’s genocide.
Liberals don’t vote for the green party. Not genocidey enough.
Sure it is. The Green Party is doing more to make genocide happen than the Democrats are. The Greens are explicitly running as a spoiler candidate to make Harris lose swing states. This will cause Trump to win the presidency and bomb the West Bank.
We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic, we could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.
Source: https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/harris-vs-trump-spoiler-says-the-quiet-part-out-loud.html
You seem to have liberals and leftists confused. Liberals support Democrats because they’re happy that the party has come around to supporting the genocide they’ve always wanted. Some leftists don’t want genocide and vote for someone you don’t want them to (someone who, yes, is an intentional spoiler, which I’ve said before), so you have to pretend that your genocide support is the moral genocide support.
You’re no different. I voted for Harris, by the way. Took a long shower afterwards. Didn’t help. I will resent Democrats forever for manipulating me into voting for liberals’ genocide.
I was referencing the election cycle in 10 years.
And I don’t vote like a 13 year old trying to get my buddy the little fake crown for homecoming. Green party hits 5%, they get federal election funding, we are no longer a 2 party nation.
All this time the shills have been saying “vote for the genocide today, and then start the work the day after election day to make the Green party viable” has been a shameless diversion tactic the entire time.
I can throw away my vote on a genocidal cop who is pro-border wall, pro-incarceration of refugees, pro-genocide, pro-cop city, pro-lethal response to protesters, etc, or I can vote for the Green party to get actual funding and actual participation in the election process in 4 years.
It would have been so much faster for the supposedly left leaning party to actually lean left and get my vote, but since they decided to disenfranchise me and do everything they can to silence me, my went Green.
Green party hits 5%, they get federal election funding, we are no longer a 2 party nation
Bullshit. They have been receiving public funds you numb nuts. You can verify that from the Federal Election Commission. Here is their spreadsheet they provide as summary.
Please go fuck off with this argument as it is 100% verifiably false. This is literally lies that the Green party has told you. They routinely squander the money they receive because they hire zero talent to actually use funds in a meaningful manner. They have zero ground game, they only focus on top ticket rarely if ever down ticket, and office and PR positions are absolute shit.
Holy fucking shit have you eaten their lies, whole cake worth of them. I am so sorry you think the current leadership of the Green party is actually honest. Maybe if we were talking the 1980s leadership, but holy fuck, the Green party today has been overtaken by folks who are in it for them and them alone. And they go out and play victim, “Oh this system is not fair!!!” When their own willful incompetence ruined any chance.
I won’t have this bullshit of victim they play. The Green party can suck a dick, the people running it have successfully ran that fucking boat into the goddamn iceberg at full throttle. Anyone supporting Stein is so fucking clueless at this point, there’s zero redemption. Jill ain’t in this for any kind of morality, she’s in it for money, lights, and attention. The number of people who haven’t caught on to this is absolutely astounding.
But we are NOT going to pretend that the Green party hasn’t been receiving federal election funds, when that is so effortlessly proven FALSE. If you’ve been giving her money, she using that money to eat well, cause she ain’t spending it on getting elected. And I assure you, she’ll be out and about playing victim when she loses this time too.
Green party hits 5%, they get federal election funding, we are no longer a 2 party nation
But BULLSHIT, BULL FUCKING SHIT. BULL ---- SHIT!! That bitch has had millions handed to her and we still a two party system. Do NOT be spouting this bullshit. Don’t be a pawn in her little victim game. She’s a bad person, you do NOT need to be played by her game. You want to fix the two party system? Go to your State assembly, because THAT IS WHERE IT IS FIXED.
This little path that you explained, you’re being played by dumb motherfuckers who are halfwits at politics.
but since they decided to disenfranchise me and do everything they can to silence me, my went Green
No what happened was you lost your backbone and in your moment of weakness you got played by dumber idiots than Trump. The fact you think this two party system is fixed by the President election proves you have zero fucking clues. You know what, you should likely throw your vote away. I don’t think you have anything to contribute to the left or the right. If you just stay 3rd party for the rest of your life, both parties can just write you off. If you vote 3rd party the rest of your life and not fix this at the State level, then you’re no different than a dead voter. That’s what Republicans and Democrats know about third parties, that’s why they don’t sweat them.
Because this whole “if we only get 5%” argument is a lie they tell you to keep sending them checks. They’ve been getting money, they’ve been getting election dollars, they aren’t hurting for cash. Jill just doesn’t want the job, because if she did, she would be running the party a whole lot like the 1980s and not this current “let’s waste money as fast as we possibly can” mentality she currently has.
It’s right there in black and white. They’re being handed the tools to succeed down ticket. They just don’t want it and that’s why they don’t go down ballot, that’s why they have zero ground game, that’s why they disappear for four years right after the election. They don’t want to win, they just want your fucking money.
we are no longer a 2 party nation
We’re a two-party nation as long as first past the post voting is the standard. If you want the green party to be taken seriously, that should me what you’re campaigning for, not a third candidate in an inherently two-party system.
I can throw away my vote on a genocidal cop who is pro-border wall, pro-incarceration of refugees, pro-genocide, pro-cop city, pro-lethal response to protesters, etc, or I can vote for the Green party to get actual funding and actual participation in the election process in 4 years.
You can vote for a candidate who’s got a chance of beating the authoritarian dictator wannabe, or you can throw away your vote on a spoiler candidate with no chance of winning the election on the hopes that other people don’t do the same and let Trump win.
I do hope that if Trump wins, all of you people who’re trying to take the moral high ground will reflect on the situation and realize that you not only didn’t do the bare minimum you could have to stop it, your actions actually indirectly assisted him gaining power again. I don’t have much hope that that will happen, but I hope it does.
It’s really a shame, because normally, I’d be very in support of the green party. I like their platform. But they need to get political seats elsewhere before going for the fucking presidency. Even if, by some weird happenstance, they got elected, they would be completely blocked by the other branches of government at every turn. Get some seats in local government, get some seats in state governments, get some house and senate seats, then try to join the big leagues.
Exactly, Jill Stein is a stooge with no government experience whatsoever who thinks she can jump right in and be president of the most powerful country on earth. Not to mention taking money from republicans and accepting legal aid from Trump’s personal attorneys. It’s a joke.
If you want to be a real candidate, start with city council. Mayor. Governor. state senate. ANYTHING and work up from there. But she isn’t interested in making any actual progress.
Look at AOC for example, a progressive politician who is starting where she can actually make a difference and learn how to be a legislator and leader. Who knows, maybe one day we can vote for her for president.
When you lose with your “fall in line with my fascist” bullshit, remember you are at fault for your own loss.
You could have stood up for what is right, you could have influenced the Democrats to return to their roots, but you didnt. You made excuses for them and championed their fascism.
You are the reason they lost.
I honestly hope you’re getting paid by someone to be here. The Trump campaign, Musk, Putin, China, somebody, because at least then I could understand your stance from a purely self-serving standpoint. If this is your sincerely held belief, I don’t know what happened to get you here, but you should probably review your sources and really think about what you’re saying, because it’s pure fiction.
Green or socialist party (better. not funded by GOP even if you don’t buy into socialism generally) in California or other non-swing state. Awesome. In swing state, destructive.
Green Party … major parties
That’s a great joke… oh, you’re serious.
Their membership is < 1/3 that of the libertarian party.
I’m against innocent people being killed. I’m sorry that upsets you. It may well be that, under Trump, more innocent people will be killed. Still, I have the preference of voting for people who reduce the number of innocent people being killed, rather than voting for people who condone it.
Yes, Trump is even worse. But killing innocent people is still so bad that I am harmed by it being politically acceptable. Humans will destroy themselves because they lack compassion for other living beings, and that’s just what it is. You can get angry at me because I don’t like that, but that’s just another lack of compassion, and I won’t be surprised.
In politics you choose a direction. Do you want more death, less death, or don’t care about the deaths.
Trump is more deaths, Harris is less deaths, not voting is that you don’t care about the deaths (or a different differentiating issue matters more)
Those are your choices when it comes to voting and encouraging others to vote.
That is your impact, pick one
not voting is that you don’t care about the deaths
Voting for someone who condones killing innocents is not acceptable.
You are inventing that anyone is condoning killing innocent’s BUT that’s not even important.
You get to pick, you want more deaths, less deaths, or don’t care.
There are no other impacts you can have with your vote.
If you care deeply you can join marches and protest. The many people who are doing so will gladly tell you Harris is not doing enough, but that it would be idiotic to not vote for her.
I want to support a candidate who is against killing innocents.
You are inventing that anyone is condoning killing innocent’s
I have personally talked to people who condone Israel killing innocent people. They rationalise it in all kinds of ways. That’s what people tend to do, which is why I am not fond of people.
Yeah, that’s cool, so am I - that’s not the only thing that’s on the ballot, though, and you can try to justify it as “Well, I’m not voting for anyone”, but this is very much a “If you aren’t voting against Trump, you’re voting for him, directly or indirectly” situation.
It’s cool, though - I’m sure everyone will understand. You couldn’t do the bare minimum to prevent an authoritarian takeover because you felt very strongly about one issue. Nevermind that your actions actually made that issue’s outcome worse for the people you purport to care about. We’ll all overlook that.
you felt very strongly about one issue
Yes, I feel very strongly about innocent lives.
AKA:
“Why are you hitting that screw with a hammer?”
“I refuse to use a screwdriver; it takes too long and I’m morally opposed to patents that you get with screwdriver heads.”
“You do know that your hammering is going to make a total mess of things, rIght?”
“I don’t care; it’s the principled stance I’m willing to take to build this house.”
AKA: whatever this tedious bullshit is.
Claims to have a principled opposition to screwdriver head patents: buys screws anyway.
Sounds like the Democrats to me. All “I’m the anti-genocide candidate!” while shipping cluster bombs to the middle east.
Thank you for saying this.
It’s possible for both to be correct. You can’t fix the US government by voting third party for President, because the system isn’t set up to support that. First you have to deal with the electoral college and FTTP voting, then the laws on the books, which means electing third party representatives who are willing to support changing the laws.
And on the other hand, the President can at least call out what Congress is doing that’s enabling genocide in the middle east instead of politely asking for both sides to stop killing each other so everyone can talk, while representing the people sending weapons to one side of the conflict, who are taking advantage of their position in government to methodically wipe out an entire people.
First you have to deal with the electoral college and FTTP voting, then the laws on the books, which means electing third party representatives who are willing to support changing the laws.
Apologies for paraphrasing you, but the system isn’t set up to support that either.
That said, It’s going to be happening a lot anyway in 2026 now that the Republican party is coming apart at the seams and the remaining “moderates” are jumping ship. I’m looking forward to the new left wing coalition, it’s going to be such a wonderful mess.
And on the other hand, the President can at least call out what Congress is doing that’s enabling genocide in the middle east
I was told that no one can because AIPAC.
You’re a single issue voter. Think about that.
Yes, the most important single issue to me is not killing innocent people. If that’s not an important single issue to you, I disagree with your morality.
If the Overton Windows shifts further right, will be we arguing that we must vote Dem because they’ll criminalise fewer women who have miscarried? Because they’ll fight for the ‘least flamboyant queers’ to keep their jobs?
My stand is that killing innocent people is wrong. You can disagree, we seem to live in a world where killing innocent people on purpose is something that we have to put up with for the sake of democracy functioning.
Harris is calling for an investigation into Israel that would reduce the amount of innocent deaths, and they’ve been trying to negotiate a cease fire for a while now.
The executive branch has very little power to stop congress from approving funding for anything.
That is good.
Executive branch has 100% control over actual spending. Congress could approve $10T for Israel, and executive can spend it as fast or slow or none as it feels like. Congresses only power is setting a ceiling on spending.
This sounds great but isn’t really true at all. Please don’t spread misinformation.
money Congress appropriates? Yes, federal agencies must prudently plan to spend money during its period of availability, but the President can request that Congress cancel or rescind some of this funding. The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act (Impoundment Control Act) of 1974 outlines a fast-track procedure for legislation responding to a President’s rescission request. Upon submitting a proposal to Congress, the President can withhold the funds targeted for rescission for up to 45 days or until a withholding would prevent the funding from being prudently obligated. If Congress has not enacted legislation by the end of that period, the funds must be released, and they cannot be proposed for rescission again under the Impoundment Control Act. Until 2018, a president had not proposed a rescission under this process since 2000. In May 2018, President Trump sent a package of proposed rescissions to Congress for consideration. Congress did not act on that request to approve any of the proposed reductions under the fast-track procedure, and the funding was released.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impoundment_of_appropriated_funds
Ok, thank you. There was a lot of unspent covid relief allocations, fussed over without anyone in congress trying to force the spending. It would seem impossible to impose quality of spending criteria.
There was a lot of unspent covid relief allocations, fussed over without anyone in congress trying to force the spending.
Yes, but those might have helped Americans. When it’s propping up the political career of the fascist head of a genocidal apartheid state, that’s when congress springs into action and makes it happen. Funny how Netanyahu doesn’t have to wait for decades for incrementalists to get off their worthless asses to get what he wants.
I’m against innocent people being killed. I’m sorry that upsets you.
[…]
You can get angry at me because I don’t like that, but that’s just another lack of compassion, and I won’t be surprised.If you think your stance is more moral than others’ and would like for people to agree with you, have you tried not being a complete cunt about it?
I have no dog in this race since I live in a country with a sane voting system, so you can spare me your performative moral outrage.
have you tried not being a complete cunt about it?
No, but I have tried blocking people who are rude.
I’m against innocent people being killed. I’m sorry that upsets you.
[…]
You can get angry at me because I don’t like that, but that’s just another lack of compassion, and I won’t be surprised.cries about people being rude
I’m actually more upset about how terrible your post formatting is.
I’m against innocent people being killed. I’m sorry that upsets you.
[…]
You can get angry at me because I don’t like that, but that’s just another lack of compassion, and I won’t be surprised.cries about people being rude
makes weird jabs about formatting when their hypocrisy is pointed out
I live in a country with a sane voting system
You don’t have a spare room by any chance, do you?
Unfortunately the voting system is the only sane part about Finland. Our current government is so far right that it includes multiple literal neo-Nazis and a pedophile neo-Nazi (who stepped in to replace a neo-Nazi), and multiple ministers (well ok, a minister and the Speaker of the Parliament) have fantasized in public about murdering eg. gay people or foreigners. The Speaker of the Parliament is also one of the right wing mass murderer Breivik’s idols, and has obliquely spoken in support of Breivik’s act of terror.
This place is a conservative shithole and I suggest anyone considering a vacation here to go somewhere else, especially if you’re not white or cishet
The Speaker of the Parliament is also one of the right wing mass murderer Breivik’s idols, and has obliquely spoken in support of Breivik’s act of terror.
Killing the outgroup is popular. This is because “if we oppress them, we look good because we have power.”
People like him make it clear that we’re soon going to be in a “us or them” situation here – these people literally want to murder leftists, 50% of the country’s voting age population supports them (and distressingly the youth vote went to the right), and their rhetoric is getting more and more violent by the day.
This current government is normalizing fascist speech and tactics, and it won’t be too long until talk of some sort of final solution to the leftist question will be completely normal, and after that it won’t be too long until they actually start implementing it. Unfortunately the majority of people who are willing to use political violence are conservatives, because like I said, soon it’s going to be us or them.
If politics is killing innocent people
It’s not just politics, it’s a rule of law. We have passed in the past under different administrations laws requiring funding to the Israeli state. Only via our legal process can we undo that. Now there are some laws that allow the President to suspend funding that has been legally appropriated, but those only go so far.
It’s a will of Congress and the understanding that we are a nation of laws, that money keeps funneling towards Israel. But at the same time there are some bending of the laws via creative justification that allows us to setup a floating pier and deliver supplies to the Palestinians.
And Israel doesn’t want aid being delivered by the United States because at the same time it allows them to begin collecting evidence against Israel’s current abuse of human rights.
There has to be an understanding that there is a process by which an administration has to follow. It’s dumb we have that process, I won’t deny that, but until Congress gets off it’s collective ass and change that, we have to follow that process. Otherwise, just doing whatever opens the door for folks to do whatever in the opposite direction as well and have zero recourse.
But killing innocent people is still so bad that I am harmed by it being politically acceptable
It’s not acceptable but at the same time we can have two takes to it. We either follow our laws or we don’t. Everything that has created this situation, that didn’t happen overnight. The laws that provide unquestionable aid to Israel, those weren’t passed in the last four years. It takes time to undo those things. Now that does provide a means for innocent people to die and you have every right to be disgusted by it. I will absolutely not tell you, that your opinion is incorrect. It’s dumb that we’ve put ourselves into this position.
But that said, absent any system, this “I no longer care about politics”, the ONLY thing that will do is ensure the complete and effective eradication of these people. The “I no longer care about politics” stance is synonymous with the “I don’t care if these innocent people are wiped from this Earth.”
This is a difficult conflict and it’s wild that so many people toss their hands into the air and shout “I don’t care anymore!!” the second the conflict actually gets into one of it’s really difficult phases. If this phase of the conflict troubles you, you are not an ally for any means of protecting innocents that you think you are. Protection of people’s lives is dirty ass work, if the messiness of the politics of this troubles you, you wouldn’t be able to save anyone anyway. It may come as a surprise to many here, but humanitarian crisis like this are messy affairs, shit is complex, and nobody ever walks away hands clean. Who knew the world was like this?
But that said, absent any system, this “I no longer care about politics”, the ONLY thing that will do is ensure the complete and effective eradication of these people. The “I no longer care about politics” stance is synonymous with the “I don’t care if these innocent people are wiped from this Earth.”
I disagree. I care very much about innocent lives, but I don’t care much for a political system which views those lives as a necessary price to pay for diplomacy.
People seem to forget that our government was intentionally created to be hard to change.
Ho Chi Minh knew all about America’s long history of slavery and genocide. He knew that and he welcomed the Americans who came to fight the Japanese.
Any questions?
Help me I’m being harmed by Biden
Democrats have taken the stance that it’s absolutely UNTHINKABLE that they could possibly not support a genocide, instead full bore opting that the other side’s genocide support is somehow worse. Man, fuck these people so hard.
Like it or not, a significant portion of the country is in favor of supporting Israel, and so they have to walk the line of supporting Israel without supporting genocide, because if they don’t they also lose.
Republicans can campaign on being pro-genocide, give weapons to Israel on the condition they use them with less discretion, and make a campaign promise to deny asylum to any refugees and they don’t lose a vote.
Democrats have to support Israel and Palestine, which is nearly impossible to do without a degree of “please don’t use this gun wrong like you have every other time”.If you actually don’t see how a Republican administration would be vastly worse for Palestinians, I don’t know what to tell you.
Like it or not, a significant portion of the country is in favor of supporting Israel,
Straight up not true to an extent that electorally matters. The only people who would drop Harris for supporting Palestine are the republican voters she’s needlessly trying to court. Meanwhile at this rate she’s losing/already lost Michigan and at least one other swing state with a significant Muslim population (there are a few of them). Her neglect of her voter base is what will do her in.
Got any data for that claim, or just asserting?
It’s why the Harris campaign is consistently trying to thread the needle and support Israel while not supporting the genocide.
I’ve been trying to find recent data separated by political party (it’s there I’ve seen it before) but I can’t find it for some reason.
Do you have any sources to back up your claims?
Democrats have taken the stance that it’s absolutely UNTHINKABLE that they could possibly not support a genocide
“It’s just what happens!!!”
I’m ready for the Dems to roll over when abortion is banned and the numbers of women dying in childbirth skyrocket. “The voters have decided. This is just what happens!” Instead they will shift the Overton window to “women should be jailed for 5 years rather than 10 when they have a miscarriage which looks like an abortion”. I hope this statement is a joke, and not actually a prediction.
Your hypothetical situation regarding abortion is happening as we speak, and the democrats are fighting it. I’m not sure where you’ve been for the last year.
and the democrats are fighting it
Yes, and I worry that they will keep fighting it from a further and further rightwards position, meaning rights are eroded while they position themselves.
In fact it’s one of the other major reasons why we need to vote democrat. RvW was overturned because SCOTUS is stacked with republicans. You want to prevent shit like that happening again, you need to vote so we can rebalance the courts.
The democrats have openly refused to pack the courts. How are they supposed to campaign if they don’t have Republicans to threaten us with?
The democrats have openly refused to pack the courts. How are they supposed to campaign if they don’t have Republicans to threaten us with?
I used to think these kinds of comments were silly jokes. But, the more that the Dems just allow everything to slip rightwards, it seems like this is really their strategy, and I’m worried it’s not a joke.
not sure what you’re talking about, Biden has appointed almost as many judges as Trump did. And also not far off Obama who served two terms.
They had two years of majority in both houses under Biden where they could have added justices to the bench.
yeah obviously moderate dems and DINOs like Manchin are never going to go for that. If that’s your bar for voting for democrats you’re being completely unrealistic.
Recent post around here said “democrats will shift to the right if they lose”. Yes that overton window will be “only get 1 year prison if they accuse the father of rape” shift.
God forbid Biden/Harris actually change their handling of Israel.
They always expect the millions of voters to change rather than the dozens of politicians to change to align with the voters.
- They expect the voters to align with the donors
Donors think of voters/voting as “the fifth column.”
Biden is in charge right now, not Harris.
And she explicitly said that she wouldn’t change anything
I think she will change things, but can’t really speak out like she would probably want being she is Biden’s VP. Either way, Trump will only make things worse.
We can guarantee there’ll be no Ukraine and no Gaza if Trump takes office. Coin flip if he randomly decides to hulk smash Iran to show the world he’s a big tough guy with the best bombs (which would inarguably lead to far-reaching ramifications).
Best thing that could happen if they changed their stance re: Israel is that Trump can now claim he’d do it sooner and the blood of countless Palestinians is on their hands, and that they’re only trying to score political points by turning their back on their allies, and that they’re flip-floppers that are incompetently throwing spaghetti noodles at the wall. This would get Benghazi-ed so damn hard.
Trolley problem
Trump may win election because he is more progressive on Ukraine. Only path to Ukraine existing with Odessa, until a referendum, is peace. It is Biden/Harris neocons that want to diminish Russia to the last Ukrainian.
Trump may win election because he is more progressive on Ukraine.
More “progressive” by… giving Putin what he asks for?
If Trump wins, Ukraine can both say goodbye to any support from the US and watch as Trump lifts sanctions against Russia and turns a blind eye to any arms manufacturers that want to make a quick buck by selling to both sides.
The only deflationary policy whatsoever Trump has is peace in Ukraine. Everything else ruins the country. That said, the Ukraine war is extreme evil and of zero benefit to ordinary Americans. Russia doesn’t buy arms from US, and Ukraine only accepts gifts. Russia is only side in this war that has ever offered reasonable peace. Provocation and disinformation was deliberate.
Trump doesn’t want peace. He’s a narcissistic wannabe oligarch who licks the boots and sucks the toes of people he perceives as powerful.
Whatever momentary “peace” comes out of his hypothetical second term is a consequence of dropping any and all support for Ukraine and backing away from defense treaties. He can and will give a plausibly-deniable green light for Russia to do whatever they see fit to “end” the war and annex neighboring countries. That’s not peace—that’s the setup for decades of violent revolutions with even more violent responses.
Russia is only side in this war that has ever offered reasonable peace.
Right, so: if I mugged someone and stabbed them, then offered to not stab them again if they let me keep their wallet and threw in their car keys as well, that’s peace?
That’s a weird way of saying Trump supports Russian imperialism and will encourage genocide in Ukraine in addition to the genocide in Palestine.
No genocide in Ukraine. Liberated regions will stay Russian, no NATO path, neutrality commitment. Can trade with EU/US if it wants, though Russia has expressed resistance to this. Likely referendums for what country oblasts wish to join, though Ukraine would resist this latter point, but just betrays what hated nazis they are in east and Odessa. Peace.
“Liberated regions”
“No NATO”
“What hated nazis they are in east and Odessa”
“Russia is only side in this war that has ever offered reasonable peace”How many rubles are they paying you to write this? If it’s more than zero, they’re overpaying. Nothing says subtle social media propaganda campaign like using Russian talking points.
I would assume that Biden has a vested interest in Harris winning. That’s why I specified Biden/Harris in my original comment, rather than Harris/Walz.
How is Biden having an interest in Harris winning at all relevant to the powers of the vice president or her actions if she is elected?
Biden and Harris are two completely different individuals, which is a fact that you guys seem to forget.
So which is it? Biden is in charge and isn’t changing stance? Or Harris isn’t in charge but also isn’t signaling a departure from Biden if she is elected?
Either way, neither Biden (who is actually in charge) nor Harris (who isn’t in charge) is changing (Biden) or stating an intention to change (Harris) their handling of Israel.
Did you read the rather long text at the top of this thread? It explains all this rather well.
Yes. Fwiw, my first comment here preceded that one.
Edit: also, that comment addresses something different than what we’re discussing here. The responses here seem to be fixated on Harris being VP rather than president. The comment you are pointing out discusses Biden’s limitations in managing this situation. Different issues, different discussions.
Idk I think Biden might be spiteful enough to want to see Harris fail.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. PACs just gotta snap their fingers, flyers ready to print, websites ready to host like newspapers stockpiling living celebrity obits
God forbid Biden/Harris actually change their handling of Israel.
They watched Seymour Skinner ask himself “Am I out of touch?” and decided that he was completely correct when he decided “No, it’s the children who are wrong.”
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