Evangelical Christian leader Russell Moore revealed this week that many evangelical pastors have become alarmed that their Trump-loving congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ.In an interview with NPR, Moore said that multiple pastors had told h…
Then maybe they should have corrected them when they were just starting out on all the crazy, rather than endorsing the dude that’s literally the closest thing this world has seen to the anti-christ.
Yeah this is a very leopard ate my face kind of moment
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Pretty sure the closest was Hitler.
Pretty sure while the cult of Hitler was insane… and definitely… more… hitler never actually claimed any pretense to being any sort of Christian-god-sent whatever.
Nazism was a sort of its own thing, and not particularly Christian, where the cult of Trump definitely is.
While Jews were far and away the largest group that suffered in camps and the holocaust…they were
Really, the closest?
considering his cult worships as the 2nd coming… he himself described himself as “the chosen one”, parrots reiligious one-liners while leading those who do worship him- and yes, that is the appropriate term- away from the teachings of christ.
He’s a bargain bin Mussolini. Unfortunately, nothing he did is particularly new.
Fun fact, there are many antichrists, biblically speaking, not just one.
Yea, it’s an archetype, but it’s funny how some predictions are oddly specific for such a broad recurrent archetype:
“… a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.” Daniel 11:21
“He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10
“But then the court will convene, and all his power will be taken away.” Daniel 7:26
From these, the Antichrist’s description is starting to sound like Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil and how that is scarier than fictional supernatural evil with horns and pitchforks.
Probably bc these are descriptions of prior people summarized. Like its all happened before.
Don’t forget holding a bible upside down in front of a church… like hello?
Easy to do when you can’t read, yeahs lay off the guy… (/s, please, trump deserves far more. Continue!)
Trump is capable of reading. I mean he read Mein Kampf. He just loses interest in it if he doesn’t see his name mentioned every x number of words.
Pretty sure that was just the picture book version made for the Hitler youth.
He’s just a fascist wannabe dictator and some people want that. It’s really nothing new or special
yep there are many like him around the world, and I’d wager to say that most of them are actually potentially more dangerous than Trump because they’re smarter and actually have an agenda of their own. What really did the USA in was not the person Trump, but rather that the whole republican apparatus and especially the corporate media went all in with him after it became clear he’d win the primaries. With the 2 party system, that means that basically half of the country was set up to deify him in a way that they haven’t really tried with previous republican candidates
Remember, the Antichrist is not just “really evil person”. It’s “really evil person who convinces a lot of people that he’s a good person and a prophet”.
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The term is open to interpretation, but it certainly doesn’t simply refer to non-christians.
Some interpretations view the antichrist as a specific individual or figure who opposes Christ in some hypothetical, end of days type situation, while others see it as a broader symbolic representation of a certain figure or person that represents the complete opposite of Christ’s teachings or the spirit of Christianity.
“Anti” can mean “opposite” just as much as it can mean “against”.
That is a whole lot of “probably” and “looks like” disclaimers for such an absolute claim.
So Jewish ppl?
At the time, it was more the Romans. It’s only after Rome became Christian that the narrative shifted to blame the Jews for everything.
If you’re thinking of the modern pop-culture version of the anti-christ, then no.
If you compare his behaviour to how the bible actually describes the anti-christ, then yes.
According to the bible he is supposed to:
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Be a divisive non-politician who comes into power against peoples expectations.
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Be overly arrogant with great boastful speeches
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Lead many people away from Jesus and cause them to blindly follow himself.
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Lead a very powerful military nation
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Publically threaten people as a common tactic
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Be very focused on winning/conquering
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Rise to power through collusion, lies and corruption.
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His election into power will by some be seen as a miracle
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Will use his power to enrich themselves and their allies
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Spread lies and falsehoods as truth, general lies and deception.
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It specifically says he will reward his allies with land/property
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Become angry and threaten the “King of the south”(Mexico)
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Be supported by some of the nations most powerful religious leaders(super churches and such support him)
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See themselves as above everyone else
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Disregard the needs of the most vulnerable in society
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Some will rise up in protest and face violence in return
Some things that are almost too on the nose:
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Only see one term
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Attempt to stay in power but defeated by the legal system
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Use his armed forced to remove people from a church for their own nefarious needs
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During their rule there will be large inflation in food cost, while oil remains cheap
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There will be a pandemic and mass death during their rule
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Supposed to worship the “god of fortresses” (in reference of walls and keeping people out)
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Followers will wear a mark on their forehead (maga caps)
This is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but it’s still pretty damned accurate
The Bible made predictions about oil prices?
People have been pressing olives for a long time.
Yeah, that one caught me off guard too… Pretty sure it doesn’t.
The bible has a bunch of different references to oil, as it was used a lamp fuel(and some rituals).
This one refers to Revelation 6:6
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
From KJ or this one from the NIV
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Referring to how the price of food would go up, but oil and alcohol would not.
Pretty disingenuous to suggest that has any relation to fossil fuels and using them in internal combustion engines.
But, then again, that’s what Christians excel at: rationalizing their awful beliefs.
That’s an interesting read, thank you! Although I would still say most points on this list still apply to many fascist dictators
I’m not sure about the point regarding “one term”, surely the bible didn’t know about the system of presidential terms? How exactly does it say there? Same about oil, what is the biblical equivalent?
It’s all from the Benjamin Corey post I linked in a reply to the comment you’re replying to. The BIble is talking about different oil-- either food, or lamp oil. 'One term’s is a happy coincidence, the bible says ~3.5 years
So not at all related to fossil oil then
No, just a coincidence. Except that both are used as fuel, I suppose, though fueling very different things
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I was hoping someone would link this.
Man there was this (satirical, but not inaccurate) blog about how trump actually matches many features of the anti-christ, but I can’t find it now, only a bunch of blogspam copying it
this is what you’re looking for.
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/That’s the one!
Change your window width to 760px to get the maximum horizontal readability on this terribly formatted website, or switch to reader mode
Brilliant! Thank you
I agree, you don’t have to look far down the road to see even worse (DeSantis).
Bro. There is a guy who literally started a war over nothing, killing and raping indiscriminately, and threatening with nukes.
And there is a dude in a nation of more than a billion people, running concentration camps, possibly committing genocide as we speak.
And to define the Antichrist, you’re focused on U.S. politics???
Someone mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, but the antichrist isn’t just a super-duper evil dude; he’s an evil dude with a religious following. He’s a guy where people voluntarily worship him. Not because they’re forced, not because they’re apathetic and just going with the flow, they willingly worship him. Additionally, trump has had pastors claim him to be sent from God, or that he is some kind of savior, which, iirc, is another characteristic of the antichrist. As evil as the others are, I’m pretty sure trump fits the bill better than they do.
There is a guy who literally started a war over nothing, killing and raping indiscriminately, and threatening with nukes.
I wouldn’t be surprised if DeSantis did this, given the opportunity.
a dude in a nation of more than a billion people, running concentration camps, possibly committing genocide as we speak.
Now that definitely sounds like DeSantis.
Just think about how many of the seven deadly sins (pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth) Trump embodies. Like… fuckin’ all of them?
Again, how is that special?
I’m not saying it’s “special”. Hypocritical, counterintuitive, ironic, sure…
What I’m saying is that Trump represents the very antithesis of what Christianity preaches. He is a very high-profile and public embodiment of their “seven deadly sins”. Which, to me at least, is very anti-christ-like. I’m not sure why you need that spelled out…
I mean, if we’re being all passive-aggressive I’ll also happily point out that the seven deadly sins have nothing to do with the antichrist technically, they are not even mentioned in the bible afaik. So bit of a crappy argument really
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It may be there are worse people but they are more akin to satan
(e.g Hitler was atheist (well not really he believed in the occult but didn’t go down religion). Trump claims to be some sort of Jesus figure to religious so hits some.of the “pretends to be Christ” points of.the antichrist(Edit Hitler religious views are very complex but I still. Stand by point he less acted like “Christ” figure than trump)
I’m going to take issue with your simplification and classification of Hitler, and the wider Nazi ideology here because I think this is very important given some of the patterns we see repeating from the early 20th century. There was a lot of nuance to the public and politically expedient viewpoints that Hitler professed regarding religion throughout his life versus his private viewpoints which colored the ideological mechanisms of Nazism.
It is tacitly incorrect to state that Hitler was an occultist, or an atheist by modern convention.
Regarding Occultism: He detested the mysticism, neo-paganism, and occult underpinnings that Himler brought to the party (specifically the SS). Hitler made it very clear that he considered these viewpoints to be sophistry and repugnant to his own view of the world, but he allowed them in so far as he supported Himler as a leader of the party.
Regarding atheism: Hitler, likewise, considered atheism to be an ideological evolution of Jewish Bolshevism that he believed was essentially responsible for the rise of Soviet Communism. It is well documented from close confidants who surrounded Hitler, and wrote about his views contemporaneously that he believed atheism was an ignorant and dangerous return to the animalistic hedonism of humanity.
Why am I bothering to quibble over these distinctions? Well, for one thing because truly dangerous political leaders generally possess the intelligence, as well as tactical forethought to manipulate and twist at the very heart of the tribal labelism that proliferates through the uneducated masses of society. They then warp these convenient in-group / out-group dynamics to fit the needs of their political ambitions. We see this today, although in a much lazier fashion, with the alliance of convenience between the neo-conservative and christian nationalist movements that have proven to be a foundational undergirding to the “Trump Cult” as it were.
We should all understand the complicated historical relationship of religion and politics from the 20th century. Especially regarding the manipulation of those relationships which lead to the rise of authoritarianism on a scale never seen before or since. Lest we go down that same road again, except the next time will invariably be the last time because the power of the technological panopticon we are now capable of creating would enslave humanity or destroy our species.
PS: If you’re interested in understanding the complexities of the religious and ideological positions espoused by Hitler throughout his life as well as the Nazi party as a whole this Wikipedia article on the subject is actually really good.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
I’m not surprised. I’ve heard stories as far back as 2015 or 2016 about people storming out in the middle of their pastor’s sermon because the pastor directly quoting Jesus’ sermon on the mount was too “woke.”
Mark my words: if conservatives can no longer advance their cause under the guise of Christianity, they won’t abandon conservatism. They will abandon Jesus.
This is an extremely interesting thought experiment, and one that is not without precedent. I left a comment below about the misrepresented and often repeated claims regarding Hitler’s (as well as Nazism more broadly) views on religion, occultism, and atheism.
I bring this up again here because what happened in Germany was essentially the opposite of the proposition you are suggesting. Instead of throwing Jesus out of Christianity, Hitler made a specific and distinct push to remove any perceivedly Jewish teachings from what became German “Positive Christianity”. This included the removal of the Old Testament, the Pauline epistles, and the framing of Jesus as a dogmatic Aryan ideologue who opposed the teachings of Jewish mysticism.
The notion that the modern crypto-fascist & christian-nationalist movements might take the opposite approach by throwing out or obfuscating the teachings of Jesus which they perceive as liberal or socialist in nature and therefore counter to the authoritarian hegemony they seem to be advocating for is a fascinating proposition. I also happen to believe you are correct, and that we have been seeing this happen in real time over the last several decades at least.
I am sincerely afraid that the most damaging threads of the 20th century will be repeated again, and I’m not so sure that humanity is as prepared as it should be to fight against that potentiality. The destruction of education in this country, and the tears in the facade of infinite-growth-capitalism have made the United States the perfect hotbed for this kind of ideology to rise again…
I am sincerely afraid that the most damaging threads of the 20th century will be repeated again
Looks at Uyghur camps in China
No country joined WW2 to liberate the Jews. No one is going to fight China for the Uyghurs. These are atrocities that help sell the morality of a war fought for other reasons. Defeating the Nazis was certainly a moral victory and they were a great evil, but that’s not why we fought them.
No one is coming to the rescue of the Uyghurs. Enduring sanctions is likely to be the worst consequence China faces.
While not the worst consequence, there’s also been a great destruction of culture.
Japan and Korea have been becoming more popular on the world stages, where they’re celebrated for anime and pop songs. Meanwhile, for all its money, and all its genuinely rich and interesting history, entering a forum to announce you’re Chinese might end up prompting snarky responses like “Oh hey, do they give you your own Uyghur family to treat as slaves?”
Interesting. Same with slavery and the American civil war I guess.
They won’t think they’re abandoning Jesus. They will start worshipping some different badass with the same name who brings vengeance upon his enemies with swift application of firearms. They’ll call that entity Jesus, but it will have no relationship to the Christian concept of Jesus.
Republican Jesus has been a thing for a long time.
Supply side Jesus. A classic.
That link is to something different, but yes, Supply Side Jesus should be required reading for this thread. It’s a bit dated, though.
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/the-gospel-of-supply-side-jesus.aspx
Well, that’s what religious people have always done. They follow a religion until it disagrees with them, then they leave and start a new ‘slightly different’ branch which agrees with them.
You know, sort of like how Catholicism was founded about 30 years after Jesus’ assumed death date, but then 1600 years later, Baptists decided to branch off create their own flavor.
Bruh. They abandoned “conservatism” and jesus a long, long, long-ass time ago.
I suggest you check out the Conservapedia Bible Rewrite project/Conservapedia Bible Project for a good laugh.
They never accepted his teachings in the first place…
You have a point, however, there seems to be a difference in severity. It’s like how openly and aggressively racist some of these folks have gotten. Sure, they always probably harbored those feelings, but now they are more brazen about it, and the behavior is getting worse as a result.
They just needed someone in a position of authority to tell them it was okay to be awful.
Jepp. Ever heard the argument from for instance atheists that you don’t need the bible to know right from wrong? They are unfortunately incorrect. These guys definitely need some higher power telling them.
I was just talking to my son about this last weekend. We were discussing the merits of organized religion. He said “I don’t need the threat of eternal punishment to act morally”. I said “you’re right, and neither do I, but there seems to be a great many people who do. So although the church is largely an instrument of control, it’s a necessity for a great many people”. It is going to have a profoundly negative impact on our society when these people are completely unleashed.
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I think you missed the point. The threat of eternal punishment is the only thing holding a lot of people in check.
Can we just swap that for enforceable threats of NOW punishment? We have laws. Let’s start using them.
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You’re getting lost in your own wank.
I would rather have people act morally because of empathy and even social pressure, versus “master told me to.”
Granted, if the church and its teachings disappeared today, things may get a bit more rough in the near future. Religion works on some people because they were raised in it and need it to stay normal. But if they weren’t indoctrinated since birth, it would not have such a hold on their morality.
Also granted, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would still act better with it than without it. Just speaking in general terms here.
We’re in agreement.
I would also prefer if people just acted out of empathy but I believe some people just can’t. Ironically while many claim that autistic can’t they are often more empathetic than others.
What I really dislike with this kind of Christians is that they have so much text regarding compassion but they still just care about the parts that can be used to judge others. even though they claim to read the Bible literally. Which of course they don’t.
Yeah, I would say that it’s another example of those Christians cherry picking the parts of the Bible that are convenient for what they already believe, but they aren’t even doing that. The majority are just repeating lines they were fed.
Aw, how sweet that you think a negative impact on society from religion is something that will happen in the future.
Problem is that the morality taught by Christianity, and most other large organized religions, is extremely outdated and has spent many hundreds of years being corrupted by those in power to oppress others. I mean these people literally believe that God will punish our entire society if we don’t eradicate LGBTQ groups. I actually think these people would be much more tolerant of others if they had never encountered organized religion and just learned to coexist with others organically.
While I partly agree with you, my point was not so much the content of the laws but that some people need an invisible all seeing power to make sure that they’re following them.
They have trouble empathising with others unless it also directly affects them. There are for instance a number of republican politics who only supported the LGBTQ after their own child came out as gay or what ever. And that’s the best case scenario.
Religion in the US is weird though. You got the extremist kicked out from Europe and you southern state branches where pastors either moved north or stopped talking about equality for all men. What remains is non of the kindness and only cruelty and punishment that some people seem to get off on.
My own take on the morality of the laws in the Bible is that we would be better off if we more looked to the reason for the why of the laws than just reading what the law said. What spoken of in tanakh (or old testament) regarding men having sex for instance isn’t about to consenting adults but a question of rape of the penetrated man. Or in an interpretation from a Danish theology, incest of a male relative. Except for the question of rape and incest, it doesn’t have any bearing today regarding same sex relationships.
Yup. The jokes made under their breath have turned into heckles from the crowd.
Arguable. The stories have him talk about the right price and your rights with slaves, and as commonly understood “not one jot or tittle” would directly conflict with “let he who…”, unless the second is an edict (“hey, you, sinless one, go chuck a rock at them and bludgeon then go death”).
Where the bible isn’t monstrous, it’s at best inconsistent.
Pretty insane interpretation of jesus’s teachings, ngl
Super edgy tho
…did the pastor just wake from a 6 year coma?
‘Christians’ switched to Cult-45 the day Trump entered into politics.
I grew up fundamentalist, and they had abandoned his teachings in the 80’s in service to Emperor Reagan.
I mean, really, when did Christians ever follow Jesus’ teachings considering how many people were converted by the sword…
It’ll be the ones you don’t hear about, for example my grandparents who are some of the kindest, most compassionate people you’d meet. They hosted refugees, consistently voted progressive, and changed church when their previous one started being more anti-LGBT. There’s just no headlines in Christians actually acting like Christians.
Because they’re actually following the teachings of the Bible especially the notes on the hypocrites. They just do good, they don’t talk about doing good in places where people will hear them.
Good on them :)
they need to break out a whip and turn over some tables!
I think they’re a bit past those days!
If my kin are anything to go by, youre never too old to kickass and take names. Hell my great grandfather won his first bout against death, lost the second though.
I wasn’t alive during the crusades, but I think that would be a pretty good starting place.
I would say when Constantine and Pope Sylvester threw in together
The leopard is still hungry
Christians have ignored the teachings of Jesus from the start. Just one example: You cannot serve God and money. Matthew 6:24. I think Jesus was a communist who would probably also be crucified today by the people who proclaim to be Christians.
Paul derailed the Church right out of the gate. Here’s a guy who has had an absurd amount of control over the fate of Christianity who never met Christ, and who advocates principles that directly contradict Christ’s own teachings while being very similar to the teaching of the Jewish temple Paul previously held power in as a Pharisee. Paul took Christ’s teachings and merged them into a contemptible, incoherent hybrid of Christ’s message and the Jewish law-focused faith, brought full circle back into a religious bureaucracy by the Roman Catholics.
Total agreement. His message was revolutionary.
No one hates Jesus and his teachings as fiercely as a Christian. Christians would be the firsts in line to crucify Christ for his hippie, soft ideas again if he were to resurrect, this has been known for centuries.
I have a 20 year old t-shirt that says “If Jesus comes back we’ll kill him again” on it in tiny white script. People always thought it was a statement of my intentions but it was always just a comment on society.
Reminds me of the South Park ep Hare Club for Men, when Bill Donahue, of the Catholic League (read: assholes with persecution complex), says to kill the Jews (Jesus was Jewish). Jesus wasn’t hardline enough.
I’m pretty sure that killing Jesus is not very Christian.
That’s simply not true. A truthful statement is that these people were never Christians. They flew the Christian flag because it lent them credibility and control. But it has been a long time since we’ve seen any Christian values from the loudmouths we see in the news claiming to be Christians. Actual Christians aren’t the people you see on the news. I know a few and they’re great people who do a lot for their communities and the people around them.
A truthful statement is that these people were never Christians.
This is like the most very basic “No True Scotsman” that you can do.
These people are Christian, whether you like it or not. You don’t get to decide that they aren’t. All Abrahamic religions and their holy books are full of awful awful stuff. And no, not just the Old Testament.
Now you know how most Muslims feel.
Yea saying they’re not Christian is just giving them an excuse.
If you’re not at least attempting to follow the teachings of Christ, then you’re not a Christian. Just calling yourself something doesn’t make you that thing. I can say I’m a Rock Star until I’m blue in the face, that doesn’t change the fact that I’m not even musical.
What you’re missing is that your rational response doesn’t let people feel justified in hating people
You know, like atheists think religion makes you act. Turns out that’s a humanity thing and not a religion thing
Not a true Scotman. Read a history book. Christians have been beheading, slaving and murdering people ever since Constantine converted in his death bed. It was never about being a good Christian in the eyes of God. Religion has always been about power.
Shouldn’t he be like the false prophet they warn themselves about? I mean, is not that I expected some of those dumbfucks to even know what the bible says, but fuck, the level of idolatry is astounding.
Trump embodies every single characteristic that the Bible ascribes to the antichrist. CPAC even built a golden idol of trump a few years ago.
Hmm, that wasn’t fun at all!
how do they not see that. What would take a literal money exchange booth in the church.
This pastor seems to think so.
I am not a Christian, and don’t have a dog in this fight.
Well, clearly Jesus is the actual false prophet, because a long-haired dark-skinned Middle Eastern socialist who got executed as a criminal sounds like a LOSER.
Irony is often lost on people whose primary personality trait is cognitive dissonance.
Obviously that was Obama since he was black.
Maybe the origin of their beliefs has less to do with the meanings being sacred texts, and more to do with being walking, breathing, confirmation bias machines.
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I like messiahs who weren’t crucified.
You helped create these people. You are these people.
They keep saying that Jesus will return. Yet if he ever did they would dismiss him as a “dirty hippie” and cheer for the cops who beat him to death.
Then crucify him. Then glorify him for dying for their sins again.
They’d be too confused by the fact that he isn’t white.
They like the “is Lord” part. The idea of divine royalty and unquestioning loyalty. They aren’t so keen on teachings of kindness, introspection, self awareness, caring, mutual respect, humility, poverty, etc.
It’s kind of weird to accept someone as your Lord white disobeying all his instructions.
In the 30+ year old words of Bill Hicks:
They believe the bible is the exact word of God - Then they change the bible! Pretty presumptuous, huh? “I think what God meant to say…”
Moore also said that one problem is that many Christians simply feel alienated and lonely, as politics have come to take over the community outlets that churches once held.
Oh, hey, it’s basically me. There isn’t room for “love your neighbor as yourself” in the Republichristian party. I don’t feel welcome at church anymore.
You’re at the wrong church then. A good one can be hard to find in some areas…
Sounds like you should find a new church then.
The last true Christian was a Middle-Eastern socialist Jew.
Peter?
I think he means The Jesus
Jesus wasn’t a Christian.
That’s the joke
Santa?
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Almost as if they never gave a shit about Jesus’s teachings in the first place and only cherry picked a couple of things that fit their existing desires.
Now they’re just going mask off.
It doesn’t take much. For starters “Greed” is one of the 7 deadly sins…
“Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — ‘turn the other cheek’ — [and] to have someone come up after to say, ‘Where did you get those liberal talking points?’” Moore revealed. “And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, ‘I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ,’ the response would not be, ‘I apologize.’ The response would be, ‘Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak.’”
Looks like these “churches” are in desperate need of salvation. If only they knew someone who could provide that…
If only they knew someone who could provide that…
Uh, is it Trump? It is, right?
