The trolls have organized, industrialized, and multiplied like cockroaches. They have also changed from a few phbb forum assholes posting to stir shit and bait people to agenda-driven agents of propaganda. They no longer subsist on lols from making people mad, they get paid money or tribal power.
Also, F the victim blaming that, what…? People should sit back and let the trolls have it all? The fault isn’t with the individuals replying, it’s with the service provider that willingly accepts and pushes such activity for profit and engagement.
Everyone acting like this is a problem with algorithms or whatever. Nah, algorithms have nothing to do with it. Humans are just this stupid and will follow their desire to be “right” even if it leads them off a cliff. I mean, Lemmy loves feeding trolls. No one on Lemmy seems to understand the concept of “block and move on” (not that I’m totally guilt-free, I love feeding trolls for the same reason I love feeding campfires).
No one on Lemmy will just ignore the trolls. Quite honestly, I’m wondering if the Internet should adopt a new strategy: mock the troll-feeders. If you catch someone engaging with a troll, you start making fun of them for feeding it. Make it clear that’s why you’re mocking them. Then maybe they’ll grow a brain and stop feeding them (except intentionally, because that’s honestly kinda fun sometimes).
It’s because rich powerful people have realised that if you feed the trolls you can get them to do things.
I’m so happy I was introduced to the 'net in the 90’s - when the mantra was “don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
It’s too bad that fell out of vogue.
Maybe we’ve just changed what “the internet” is. Surely FaceHuggerBook is not the internet, that’s just a bunch of friends and family. I don’t trust the real internet
I think that’s still in vogue, just that a lot of people get it wrong which parts to belive/don’t belive 😅
No way its in vogue anymore, you clearly didnt experience the 90s
Whoosh
I feel like back in the day trolling was more of an art where you’d say something stupid to expose someone’s cognitive dissonance.
Now it just refers to people being dicks. Trolling itself has become enshittified.
In my days trolling used to mean something
the best trolls rarely spoke. one of the great troll artists of kongregate forums had only 50 comments yet left a lasting legacy
There is some good bait and people don’t even care and even throw money at those people
But generally, it’s as easy as shit to pick out the bait from real opinion 🎣
I’m not sure if you can call them trolls if they’ve sincerely lost their grip on reality, and are a significant voting block.
Except it’s not their fault. At least, not entirely. Every single fucking centralized social platform tweaks its content algorithm to drive engagement, and they found that the best way was to piss you off. They shove it in your face until you can’t help but say something to fight the unending flow of utter bullshit.
That’s true, though the simple solution is to not be on such platforms. You do not have to let them “shove it in your face until you can’t help it”.
Yet are we not on Lemmy, flooded with posts detailling every little thing that Musk and Trump do?
Sort of true, but the algorithm that Reddit-like platforms use is transparent and simple (it’s just based on likes and dislikes, and I think you can even look up the source for the sorting modes) and hence doesn’t directly try to feed you content that’d enrage you. I can just not read the posts about Musk and Trump, since I find most takes on the former bad and don’t care much about the latter. Meanwhile, on platforms like Twitter or Tiktok you are directly fed content out of some recommendation ML model trained on user engagement.
(There’s also subtler differences. For example, on Reddit/Lemmy/etc, if you hate a post you can dislike it, which will generally make it show up less to people. But on, say, Tumblr, not only are there no dislikes, but if you are really hate a post you can only respond to it by reposting it, therefore spreading it further among your followers! That’s an absolutely devious platform-design move that could have been invented directly by Satan himself.)
Agreed. On most social media websites the sorting algorithm is equivalent to sorting Lemmy/Reddit on controversial. Still I do think there are active parties on Reddit pushing rage bait, and it’s a problem that Hot instead of Best is the standard sorting algorithm on Reddit.
all hail keyword filter blockers! nowadays i only see trumpet/muskat in posts that don’t mention their names in the title, and tbf i don’t mind staying a little informed on their latest pro-dystopia moves, but now it’s not as much a firehose of bullshit to my face every day all day, but an occasional squirt gun hit
I have the same filters on. It does not lessen the fact that lemmy is obsessed with those two juggaloos.
I believe that, their plan has always been to saturate the news so that people talked about them, always. So when time comes to vote, you go for the candidate you think you know best, a.k.a the one you didn’t stop hearing about.
That, and the fact that people are saturated with your shenanigans, to the point that you can do anything stupid without people caring.
Block them or move to another platform. I block everyone on Facebook who feels the need to make negative comments, regardless of whether I expect to encounter them again. Really cleans up the place.
I have to keep my LinkedIn for business reasons but recently I noticed a big uptick in fascist-adjacent posting. At first it depressed me big time but then I started blocking and a couple weeks and dozen blocks later it was over. Turns out a small number of people can really give the impression of a crowd and fuck with the whole experience.
Deleting my Facebook account cleaned it up better for me.
Fair enough xD
That reminds me. My autistic brother in law deleted his Facebook and asked my wife if she would delete hers. She mods a small community she like being a part of so I can’t blame her for not but I got permission to trash mine. Cya Facebook.
You ok?
Noooo, save me. owo
You needed permission to delete your Facebook?
Sorry, I am really submissive. That’s my deal.
Yeah, the landscape has changed a lot. People can also share on other platforms, sometimes live, showing their trolling. Poe’s law is also a thing. I first got online in the BBS days and have been around basically every since. I quit mainstream SNS years ago, but it even finds its way here.
This happens on decentralized social media, too. Fedi dwellers are all so convinced that the trolls wouldn’t have happened without intervention and man, is that not true.
Don’t get me wrong, the corpos used that dynamic for profit, but they didn’t invent it. Having been there before the algorithm, old forums, IRC and other protosocial spaces had very plump trolls, and so do federated, decentralized spaces when they reach critical mass.
The trolls definitely exist here, too, for sure. But my point was that centralized social media algorithmically pushes it on you. Facebook, for example, goes out of its way to find ragebait to show you, whereas here, the trolls have to post somewhere you’re intentionally subscribed.
No arugment there. I’m not questioning that corpos make the issue deliberately worse as an engagement engine. That’s a fact.
But a lot of people jump from there to assuming those patterns will just vanish without algorithmic intervention, and that’s just not true, which can lead to a lot of disappointment when people move to other alternatives.
Not here and you’re still mad bro
Sounds like a lack of emotional maturity.
More like an intense study of how best to exploit human nature for financial gain.
I was doing the thing you were talking about…
…being fed a manipulative stream of content to piss you off?
Yes!
Ultimately it becomes troll v troll until either trolls out leaving each troll believing they’ve out-trolled the troll.
Alot of these places are just a spot were bots and racists can argue with each other. If only it were a capsule that we could shoot into the sun.
Imagine that there’s a paving slab that sticks out right outside of your house, often causing you to fall. If that’s the 50th time you fall over due to this thing, you probably will curse at it, no matter how emotionally mature you are.
Now exchange falling over to being trolled.
B-B-But are you engaging, or are you trolling?
.
.
.…Yes?
Really nobody in the thread is going to talk about Kremlin disinformation campaigns? That’s absolutely part of it.
I’m not convinced. I mean of course they’re doing it but it only needs to be tiny nudges here and there and someone will go off the deep end. We give the Kremlin too much credit for our own dysfunction
Most people think the propaganda has some content they want you to believe, but in reality the propaganda has to just keep us arguing and fighting all day instead of using the magic of the internet for cooperation and personal growth by learning about all kinds of stuff and liberating our minds.
Exactly, digital divide and conquer
I think the default comment, even here, is “I disagree”.
Folk have mistaken contraryism for discourse and argument for engagement.
I disagree!
No you don’t.
Gottem
😔
I disagree!
Agreed. There are plenty of negative replies, but I sometimes feel the positive replies – like giving thanks – could be something more people could do.
You’re doing it wrong.
Don’t tell me what to do you… You jerkface! Yeah! How do you like that!?
I know that was devastating. You’re devastated right now. Sorry.
That was perfect!
hell yeah! i’ve been trying to embrace that IRL too, telling people when i’m enjoying my time with them, telling them when they have a great outfit, appreciating my friends, expressing gratitude for their friendship, even, though this is the hardest one, admitting when i’m wrong outloud
Kinda ironic considering how many people on here are completely unable to spot satire.
Although Facebook is definitely worse for the amount of idiotic comments being made.
There’s a fine line between satire and being an idiot but on purpose.
I find it’s less common to find insistent users who refuse to read provided sources, or provide sources of their own, on Lemmy than on Facebook. It happens, but far less frequently than when I last used Facebook in 2015. Although my perspective may have been unique to my curated feed.
I think the smaller communities helps with giving eachother the benefit of the doubt. Like if I’m disagreeing with someone from my own insurance, or another small one I know is generally cool, I’ll try much harder to figure out what their point is.
The flip side of that is people who think sources can support an illogical argument. Sources: think tank think tank WaPo.
deleted by creator
Exactly.
Hurt fee-fees and subsequent down doots are bedrocks of lemmy.
Q.E.D.
The reason it was the mantra back then was because there was always at least a few new people and people who were just kind of dull that simply didn’t get it and needed such a thing constantly repeated
Like the mtg and bobert types. Like don’t you fucking say 9/11 don’t you fucking say Jewish space laser.
I kinda get it, but I also understand why it happens. People are outraged by how the world is being fucked up and they speak out. It’s resistance to Idiocracy. They may be feeding trolls but saying nothing is ignorant compliance. So claiming it’s their fault feels like victim blaming. Also, the amount of neuro diverse people is also growing. They, we, often don’t understand sarcasm and trolling and take too much seriously. And are triggered by things meant to be a joke.
It’s funny how I reply seriously on this post. It’s like I’m inviting trolls to take me hard. I say: bring it! I brought lube.
Yes, that’s why social media should I.) allow downvoting, ii.) use an algorithm that reduces the prominence of downvoted posts and iii.) actively remove bot accounts that attempt to game the voting system. Most social media do none of these things, and in fact push controversial takes.
There was a study done (can’t find it anymore) that said to respond once to clarify and then walk away.
I wish I would be able to do that, but that goes entirely against my autism.
It is definitely victim blaming. Op thinks no one will notice what they are doing.
Oh come on, don’t feed this troll…
Lol yeah that’s what I was thinking. This is one of those posts where op thinks no one will notice they are trying to prove a point.
Even back then, the largest a forum became the less likely it was for trolls to starve in it. What we’re seeing is just the continuation of that.
This is a good point.
I think “old internet” culture was unsustainable as it scaled up, even without algos fanning the flames.
The block button is amazing.
