The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
People of the US and China are both unsure of what to believe about the other, because both are so propagandized lol
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Already debunked this ~ 6 times in this thread so far.
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He’s the guy who created the website your currently using lmao
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You just made that up. You genuinely have no idea what the Chinese perception of the uyghur imprisonment is. In fact you’ve gone out of your way to call their prison system a “work camp”. I’m not even saying that it’s not a work camp. What I am saying is you wouldn’t call American prisons a work camp despite also being used for mass slave labor.
Thank goodness for the modlog! You are right on. Just because American propaganda is bad doesn’t mean Chinese isn’t bad too or that we have to defend it. Everyone should be held accountable.
Who told you that the people of China are propagandized, especially to hate other countries and peoples as much as the US does?
Their access to news is controlled and for some topics all available news is what we’d call propaganda. Particularly anything about Japan or the Taiwan issue. Most people I know there realize this to an extent but without any other information do still believe the core idea even if skeptical of details.
But at the same time I’d argue there’s no such thing as a population that’s not propagandized. In the US the big news corporations only will present views favorable to their profitability and continued growth. Sure they disagree with eachother, but it’s still always a pro-business view. State news from Russia is (I’d argue rightly) not available on many US platforms to discourage it’s influence for example.
The US does NOT have a free press and is not at all interested in freedom and free speech. Notice that there are no socialists or leftists of any kind on any news channel or in political leadership positions.
This is just untrue. There is plenty of legal press in the US of any persuasion, from anarchist to fascist.
The major US news outlets are in bed with capitalists because that’s where the money is, but there are lots of smaller outlets with other views. In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
Mostly agree with this take. I just wanted to add some nuance. I was talking to a friend about Gaza/Israel-protests in my country and said that the media doesn’t show everything. He then told a story about the protests that was supposedly not covered in the media. However, I had literally just read about that story in my newspaper.
Point is, there is some freedom of press (at least in my country) and the press is fairly pluralistic. However, to really find out what’s going on you need to read i.) several sources, and ii.) continue to focus on events after journalists took the effort to dig down. That’s a big ask for many people. And the stories that come out first tend to be most biased.
the stories that come out first tend to be most biased
I honestly think the concept of news is actually harmful, because it’s about reporting what happened, not about making the audience understand the subject. It puts a premium on getting the report out as quickly as possible, and favours the most shocking events and interpretations that draw people’s attention.
Ultimately most news are “empty calories” of information that mostly give an illusion of knowledge. “Explosion in Herptown, dozens wounded” does not meaningfully increase your understanding of the world, it mostly just makes you scared. It will take weeks until the cause and consequences of the explosion can be fully understood, and a lot of research to put that into perspective.
Ofc there is no such thing as an un-propagandized country. There are lobbyists and think tanks everywhere
Friends of mine who have moved away from China. One of them had police at their door in China for social media posts that were friendly to Uyghurs (not even anything to do with the genocide, just general friendliness as a “we’re all Chinese” kind of message). Being taken to police stations for even slightly questioning the state narrative is terrifying.
Source: I heard it in a dream
Source: a friend of mine personally telling me what happened the last time he was in mainland China.
Woah I never recognized your username in the wild before. Thanks for giving us Lemmy. Huge fan.
No probs!
Scroll down, addressed this three times in this thread already.
You mean how both China, and the US propagandize their citizens? Yeah, I’m fully aware of that already. All states will do it, as a system of control over the working class, in order to continue to exploit them.
I mean, if controlling the people wasn’t the goal, whats the purpose of the oppression of a state?
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huge false equivalence
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I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
If banning tik tok ends up galvanizing demand for healthcare reform I’m going to laugh my ass off
Good comrades like Lady Izdihar are taking off in a big way, might help radicalize a lot of people towards Marxism even.
Rednote’s algorithm seems very receptive to communist content, at least compared to what I’m used to. Hope it stays that way.
Me too!
spoiler
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Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
Everyone pretending Europe doesn’t exist? Most countries have most healthcare for “free” (mandatory healthcare taxes).
The kinda people joining Rednote right now are not the same kinda people who know alot about geopolitics, or honestly anything beyond their personal bubble. Yeah, they’re just gonna keep pretending Europe doesn’t exist.
The game companies forget the geo-politics (time scheduling with ET/PT) except for the US/CN, US shops completely forgetting there exists a world beyond US, CA and maybe MX as shipping outside maybe exists only to the UK (for whatever reason)…
;-;
Eh… as someone living in western Europe, I can’t say it’s free. I would say that it’s subsidized at most. We still have to pay a part of our healthcare, we can get a private health insurance to complete the government coverage, but it’s still not enough to cover all of it.
Mental health isn’t covered at all, ophtalmology barely (still gotta pay 200€ for a pair of glasses, after public + private coverage), dental only the very basic is covered…
Just out of curiosity, which country?
Yup, Europe is pretty heterogeneous
The glasses part sounds similar to Germany. I‘m pretty near sighted (-4.25-ish diopters) and without glasses I‘m more or less useless. Can’t focus on things beyond like 20cm from my face. Can’t read shit that isn’t either that close or ginormous.
According to German public insurance, I’m not blind enough for them to subsidize my glasses, let alone pay for them outright.
To be fair, you can get glasses somewhat cheaply for sub 100€ if you’re not too picky about frames or high quality lenses with good coating but still. At least that much should be covered by insurance at the point where you aren’t allowed to operate a vehicle without glasses anymore, imo.
Also, I don’t wanna shit on German public insurance too much because so far I’ve never had to pay a penny for any doctor’s appointment and necessary medications have been free as well. Also, mental health is covered, at least when it’s deemed necessary aka you‘ve been diagnosed with a mental illness, so maybe the commenter above isn’t from here.
That description matches where I live, Belgium
I got my lenses for a realistic amount (~8€), but the frames are (were) expensive af. That’s mostly on Luxottica (and the state not reigning her in).
Although, that was years ago, way before “covid-induced” inflation, and the healthcare system is being dismantled bit-by-bit for a very long time, so I don’t doubt lenses got at least 3-5x more expensive in the meantime.
It’s very heterogenous. I’ve lived in a few countries in the EU, the NL for example gets you even mental health for 150 a month for the whole deal. And sick leave is unlimited and self-reporting.
As the screenshot shows, in China some things also seem to require a copay.
Not a single hospital I went to in that country had hand soap in the bathrooms, to give you an idea about the level of hygiene. But going for my yearly sinus infection was a breeze and I got antibiotics. Not a zpack but it cleared up the infection. And no appointments necessary. Breeze in and breeze out an hour later with what you need. And dirt dirt cheap, and on my visa I didn’t pay into the national health care system, so my cost was 100% out of pocket.
We are just enjoying the show and eating popcorn, don’t give them ideas!
Trying to dodge Chinese traditional medicine in Asian countries when you go to the doctor is such a pain in the ass.
I had to go to three different Japanese doctors before they would give me something other than herbal powder.
I had a colleague who had been a nurse and I’d show my prescriptions and ask “BS or actual medicine” and she’d tell me. I just started asking her first and she’d type out what I need before I went to the doctor.
The wart had to grow so it could be killed
If you’d have left it @caboose2006@lemm.ee, it would’ve become a mighty oak. You Westerners are weak. Who wouldn’t want a mighty oak growing out their dick?
It was on my thumb… But that is quite the visual.
Wart fertilizer perhaps
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
Sorry for being pedantic, but those foldable work rulers are exactly 2 m long (at least in MetricLandia), which is, incidentally, the span of IQ values (0-200).
So yeah, it literally can be mapped one-to-one to a (common type of) ruler.
200cm, the american one is up to 80 inches 😁
This is a common ruler where you live?
In my country we have rulers with 12 in/ ~30cm as the most common. We also have “yardstick” which is more often a meter stick now. But no foldable rulers.
Yup. There are like 3 types of rulers: normal (a stick), foldable (this) and those retractable metallic strips.
Sticks are usually either 15 or 30 cm, while the foldables are literally always 2m.
The coils are the most ubiquitous, but I orefer the foldavles for most things since they tend to fall undet their own weight when measuring longer distances. These sre either 2 or 5 m I think.
We have the coils too, except we call it a measuring tape.
We also have have a flexible soft version used for measuring human proportions for clothing, but it’s called a “tape measure” for some reason.
I wish we had the foldable kind, that sounds useful.
Ironically the 2m folding rulers are called “inch-stick” in German
Yeah.
The 30 cm is ubiquitous for officework or drawing, while this is for tiling floors, doing plumbing, measuring walls, roofs, etc. etc… There are also those retractable coils (usually 2 or 5m), but they tend to break easily and collapse under their own weight, so they’re not as useful for some things.
I can find one like this in basically any hardware store with few exceptions (Austria). They’re almost exclusively 2m in length (I literally haven’t seen a longer or shorter one ever in my life)
Also, a meter stick sounds workable, but borderline impractical.
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
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I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can’t trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
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The comparison is wild because financial credit score is much worse. Imagine you are a model citizen but big corp keeps you poor so youre denied basic human needs. On the other hand you are a murderer but as long as you have the moneyz you can do whatever you want.
Of course, social credit score can be misused to push agendas and manipulate the whole popularity if the wrong people implement it. Not trying to defend it in any way, it is a terrible idea. But financial credit score is suppression of the poor by design.
Most people on lemmy should be more afraid of a social credit system. Get arrested at food not bombs? That’s a penalty. Get raided at a gay bar? That’s a ding. Protest against deng? Ding. (Couldn’t help myself).
Financial credit score is more of a “we don’t give half a fuck what you do so long as you’re good with money”
A corporate credit system that is defacto standard, is nothing short of a nightmare and an insult to a nation. Any credit system.
A financial credit system, if controlled by the gov, could be good if done right; if done wrong, … It would be interesting to see how fucked up it would get how quickly. As I don’t know how to do it right, I am opposed. While I recognize the value of risk management that the system would try to be.
Based on my understanding of American credit system, that system is just fucked. It doesn’t make sense. It is not working.
A social credit system is just too vague. Any single score is too vague to express most things but “social credit” what is that? The financial credit score is at least trying to express an idea that we can understand, “how capable am I to pay back loans?”. But what does “social credit” mean? What is “social”? This vagueness makes it extremely potent to punish arbitrarily. Why is the Journalist banned from flying? Bad credit? For what? He paid his taxes late? He lost a law suit for defamations? Trespassing? Harassing a politician? Not sorting the trash correctly? It is practically impossible to prove good social behavior or bad social behavior. Or intentional abuse of the system. A financial credit score could make sense and could be evidenced (the current system is just really bad)
In short, I think the social credit has more dangerous than even the worst financial credit systems. Just think about this, if you can’t take the train to a different Chinese city, Source, then why would a bank trust you with a loan? Why would an employer hire you? Wouldn’t it keep you poor?
Just to be clear, I am speaking hypothetically while referring to real life to highlight my point. I am not saying, china use social credit systems to keep people poor. I am saying, I think social credit systems are far worse because it keeps you poor and so much more while being much more vague.
Also, in ,at least some, countries in Europe there is a credit system for driving, if you speed, you lose/gain points and if you lost all or gained too many, you loose your license. That is an example for a good and clear credit system and even that has some issues. Mainly, if I am driving 6km/h too fast, I might lose a point, and if someone drives 60km/h too fast, they might only lose 8 point. But is 8 times driving 6km/h as bad as 1 time 60km/h? Have fun, fighting over that…
A corporate credit system that is defacto standard, is nothing short of a nightmare and an insult to a nation. Any credit system.
Lol even most western countries have this, it’s called regulation and prosecuting financial corruption.
The US used to do it back in the 1950s too, but now it’s considered authoritarian. Finance-capital just pretty much hand-picks the politicians nowadays, for example, citibank hand-picked Obama’s cabinet.
Lmao
imagine making social media so bad your own citizens actively procure your biggest rival’s networks.
I think there’s a simple desire to move to pastures new. “Use Instagrmam or Youtube Shorts or Snapchat” No, we’ve been there and done that.
Imagine allowing citizens to be so free that they can go to your biggest rival’s social media to read narratives favouring them, get influenced by rival propaganda, and then shit you on your percieved weak points.
How does the US ban on TikTok thatbmakes people switch to rednote now fit this description?
wow the level of cope in this thread (thankfully not that many tho) arguing over stats - which are probably made up anyway.
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
some people can’t handle that most humans just wanna be friends regardless of gov politics bs
Yes exactly. There are lots of internet weirdos trying to spread culture war nonsense, but if you actually go outside every once in a while, you realize that most people just aren’t like that. I work in a restaurant that has a lot of ukrainian and russian visitors (migrants). At one point, a large group of russians came in for a birthday party, and they asked the owner to put on a playlist of russian music. Like, really cheesy russian pop. After some time, a girl from a smaller table of ukrainians calls me over and complains about the music. I relay it to the owner, and he asks them what they would rather listen to instead. They tell him, and he adds their songs on the queue. The rest of the evening was spent playing and dancing to russian and ukrainian and armenian songs (the owner is armenian, and there were some armenian guests too) and the atmosphere was just generally very chill. Not a single fuck was given about politics that evening.
Now if we could just get rid of all those power-hungry dicks who keep poisoning the human spirit, let it be with Capitalism, Maoism, Neoliberalism and whatnot…
Thing is, the concern about RedNote is completely valid. Even if you strip away any overarching US propaganda or whatever, we know that the CCP does really, really shitty things as well and take heavy, manipulative influence (yes yes, the US and its defacto Feudal Lords owning Meta etc. do so too).
I’m just angry people won’t take their time to look into this whole topic and go with more propaganda-resistant, federated alternatives. Not perfect, but better than a centralized service that can be influenced by either China or the US. Or Russia… or literally anyone. So that we can, in the end, just dance to some nice human music.
yep most genuinely don’t care, people just hate to be a part of something lol
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Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
In the Wikipedia article itself:
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit “score” is a myth as there is “no score that dictates citizen’s place in society”.[7]
I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton
This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print
Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever.
The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide).
The third link has Zenz again as its main source.
Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here’s a megathread:
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don’t spread misinformation.
I need to check a lot of those links and archive them, because predictably a lot of the ones posted to US run websites like twitter get removed for going against the US-zenz narrative.
Also does the fact that these ppl use twitter or quora automatically mean they’re misinforming people?
It certainly doesn’t signal credibility
So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word?
No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications.
For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own.
Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media.
It’s funny that we’re arguing this on a platform that’s legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I?
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access.
US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps.
You don’t need to use social media to access the internet.
How many times must I write the difference between corporate controlled platforms and governmentally controlled internet?
There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.
There really isn’t a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it’s political system. It’s military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons.
dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60’s. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and “far left” media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it.
Yeah? Do a quick search on how to overthrow the government. Can’t do that in China.
No nation has “free and open internet” in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor.
Do you know the difference between the internet and the World Wide Web?
Accessing the dark web is illegal in China, for example. They reduced access to the internet to government regulated websites, who must apply and be approved by the Chinese government to be accessible within the Great Firewall.
https://www.goclickchina.com/insights/the-complete-guide-to-the-great-firewall-of-china-gfoc/
Sure, and in the US companies like Google heavily distort search algorithms to make it so that the vast majority of people see only what’s already approved.
You’re still confusing the internet and the web.
So you don’t like that your point was disproven and are now comparing corporate manipulation of their own services to governmental control of the entire internet?
Get real.
dunno what your talking about ive never been blocked by government mandate only corporate mandates, and I can just vpn around those.
Chinese users use VPNs all the time. Additionally, western countries deliberately distort search results so the most approved sources are front and center.
I’ve been to China. VPN access requires jumping through insane hoops and disguising your traffic as different traffic. Tor is blocked. Most commercial VPNs are IP blocked. HTTPS proxy or HTTP proxy over SSH tunnel gets blocked very quickly due to traffic analysis.
uh obviously? do you not understand the distinction between corporate and government mandates? I can explain it if you need me to because its kind of critical to this whole conversation. and if you do understand the difference, then wtf is your point.
The US government literally just effectively banned a social network through government mandate.
true! of course your hand waving why it was banned and the options they were given. tiktok could have divested from chinese control in the US region they chose not to. in no way has the US government censored information from individuals as a result of that bill. they censured the business operating procedures. two very different and distinct issues when it comes to access to content.
In no way have americans been prevented from accessing the information within tiktok. compare and contrast that with say trying to find tiananmen square information in china.
in fact i’ll help everyone out, here is the ruling
wow you have a LOT to learn. I recommend you start at the grayzone on youtube.
Are you aware the channel you’re recommending is blacklisted China?
Way to prove my point. Lol
It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.
It’s too bad the people of China aren’t allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state.
More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources.
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.
As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it’s largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.
To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655
It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you’re saying. What has come from that isn’t a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country’s censorship.
First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That’s also where this meme started.
I’m also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it’d be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That’s not to say you can’t use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren’t racist.
In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word)
Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse.
Hmm, could be. Although the meme did take off way more with Xi than it ever did with Obama. And other comparisons were made with Eeyore and Piglet, which iirc were mostly due to facial expressions and choice of clothing (it was a shorter lady wearing pink I believe).
But I hadn’t thought of that connection yet. I figured it was mostly physical resemblance (posture and size).
I’m aware that it’s China that takes down the racist caricatures. The meme started more innocently, with Pooh being Xi and Tigger being Obama. This turned into western users overwhelmingly sticking with Xi as Pooh. The origins and what stuck are different entirely in intent and character.
But as far as I know China isn’t taking down Obama-Tigger comparisons. So Chinese netizens are also sticking with the Xi-Pooh comparison (otherwise China wouldn’t bother taking it down anymore), which doesn’t seem to match with what you’re describing as likely intent, nor with who is making the comparisons.
You seem pretty convinced it’s mostly racist westerners using the meme, but do you have anything other than a gut feeling to back this up? Because the actions of the Chinese government seem to suggest it’s mostly a domestic problem to them. And for those Chinese users it seems to have taken off as a way to avoid the censors (which is now ineffective, and has morphed into a point of principle).
I missed that. Thanks. So does that meme from the west outweigh Xi’s entire Philippino welcoming and barrage of memes, prompting the banning of the word Pooh in Chinese media, justify your claim that it’s overwhelmingly Westerners?
“Pooh” is not banned in China. Taking down racist attacks against Xi happend prior to the visit to the Phillipines, read your own articles. Some users used it in the Phillipines to protest Xi because the racist caricatures were taken down, which was a western thing.
You evaded the question with semantics. Is one meme ‘overwhelmingly’ more than a nation of Philippinos?
I didn’t evade anything, you’ve been fundamentally wrong about reality several times. Secondly, it wasn’t “the nation of the Philippines,” it was some users, and the fact that the yellow bear caricature is overwhelmingly western does not mean non-western users don’t exist.
You’re going to massive lengths to defend depicting a chinese man as a yellow bear.
Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it “good enough?”
It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting.
Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments.
These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China.
Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
It’s besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says “Social credit. We don’t have this at all” and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes.
They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist.
The western depiction simply does not exist.
I can and will not argue this point since I lack the proper knowledge on the subject.
We all agree on the fact that a system exists.
From the post:
“Social credit. We don’t have this at all” is a lie. Again, I am not saying anything about how to system works or how it is preceived. I am saying that it exists and the post claimed it does not, nothing else.
That makes it propaganda to me.
TL;DR:
- The post claims that something that exists does not. This is a fact.
- I believe this to be propaganda in some form. This is an opinion.
It’s overwhelmingly clear that you need to do more legwork to prove that that user genuinely thinks there is no credit score, and is not directly responding to the Orwellian version. This is clearly taking a dogmatic reading of one sentence to come up with the absurd claim that Chinese citizens believe that publicly stated policy doesn’t actually exist.
I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
No, it does not describe “exactly as what the western media depicted.” The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
bro is a fed or just an average american who can’t read
Wikipedia
Can you site a source more credible than a crowd sourced encyclopedia run by Americans
*feds. and the criteria for a credible source for them as they need to be western-aligned media. it’s a complete joke.
Can you provide evidence for that claim?
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
Few things blew my mind even though I’ve been a big fan of Chinese economic and political policy for a while
They actually really like Soviet Culture, the marching soldiers and flags etc. Soviet rock like Kino and the like is very popular!
They’re casually Marxist, its not something they have to fight to learn about so socialism is a casual existence for them. I figured the youth would be “too cool or hip” but doesn’t seem to be the case
They’re very similar as gamers, they really like shooters like battlefield and cs go. I assume their MMOs are different but I’m asking about that
It truly is a massive cultural exchange the likes of which have never been seen before. I’m trying to find out if they grew up on the same games, Morrowind Deus Ex Thief Ultima Online D&D etc
Oh yeah they really like Soviet culture. My first post on there is of some Soviet artwork and it got 1.3k likes, on a brand new account. Wouldn’t see that happening on Insta or Xitter.
Knowledge will break the chains of slavery!
Norway actually does.
Source: Am norwegiam. Am parent.In the US? Lol, no.
Source: I work with a bunch of Texans.deleted by creator
If only…
“And our tests have concluded, that this is, in fact, a lie.”
I still don’t believe the TEMU bit though
I like how one person said they don’t use child labour because they are inefficient. If they were efficient though …
I totally believe child labour is inefficient.
I also believe it’s cheap and capitalism doesn’t care.
Honestly, I don’t even believe it’s inefficient. There’s plenty of documented/recorded evidence of child labor around the world. Sometimes, all you really need is a pair of hands, and kids are physically capable of doing it. Countries with shitty labor laws are ripe with child labor abuse.
True. Kids were sent up chimneys to clean because it was more efficient.
TBH I expect it to be the same as everywhere where there are a lot of people with imperfect oversight.
There is going to be some children working just like in the southern US.
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You believe the rest lol? I mean it can be true but its just made up internet memes.
