This video is not monetized. This video covers our serious concerns regarding the data accuracy of Linus Media Group, including Linus Tech Tips, ShortCircuit...
Probably wont find out until next WAN show, and I’m sure we’ll see the same look we see in Lukes eyes every time Linus starts off being blatantly wrong and unable to admit it.
Genuinely gotta wonder how much more of it Luke has in him.
I think they discussed it before that happened. I think it was like the week after the video originally came out or something. I think they apologized, but said it still wasn’t good value?
Wow you’re right that is extremely long. Tldr seems to be he’s saying he didn’t do anything wrong and he’s disappointed Steve didn’t just send him a quick text about it. I feel like it would have been better for Linus to own the mistake at this stage and get the prototype thingy back as it’s not like he’s short on cash or anything. I’d say he comes off like a bit of a jerk. We’ll see how this one shakes out.
Yeah, either that, or trying to lie to Steve aboht shit like the Billet Labs thing.
It’s ironic that he feels like he’s being bashed by Steve for not contacting him after he bashed an indie company without contacting them prior to posting the review. A review that was very poorly done and, essentially, put them in the worst of lights possible. All right before selling their product on an auction.
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Remember how aggressive he was on the phone to support staff with the manufacturing requiring their first-party hub for updates (they never claimed to support home assistants in the first place)?
Might be a bad example but that stuck to me: Under no circumstance, you should talk like this to customer service. Always remember that the other end is a human and being rude makes it hard to offer a solution.
.
How do I deal with support? Start nicely (with good companies that’s all you need) and slowly provide hints they screwed up allowing them to keep face as well as being the one offering it instead of reacting to the demand. If they don’t understand: tell them. The last resort is the blacklist (company, date, reason) paired with DNS blocking (in case I forget about it).
.
Want an example of a blacklisted company? Asus.
They don’t have any technical support unless you are an influencer or some big shot buying frequently truckloads of products. I might be able to get somewhere by being a dick but do I always want to push hard to escalate it?
Just call it a day (aka. scrap those products) and buy Asrock. This was definitely a quality-of-life improvement.
.
Btw. Extracting firmware can be difficult. Nordic had a horrific bug in the NRF52, WCH has a bug in the CH552 allowing to out the firmware by software. For ST STM32F it’s complicated. They have a design flaw but exploding it requires decapping the MCU and knowing in which area of the die the readout protection bit is located. Haven’t checked if they fixed it with the newer G, U and MP series.
There won’t be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I’ve already said, and I’ve done so privately.
To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn’t go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication… AND the fact that while we haven’t sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I’ve told him that I won’t be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I’ll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of ‘Team Media’. When/if he’s ready to do so again I’ll be ready.
To my team (and my CEO’s team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we’ve been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it’s clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but that’s no excuse for sloppiness.
Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we’ve communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah… What we’re doing hasn’t been in many years, if ever… and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation. That doesn’t mean these things don’t matter. We’ve set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven’t seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you’re really looking for it… The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I’m REALLY excited about what the future will hold.
With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I’ve already addressed above) is an ‘accuracy’ issue. It’s more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again… mystery) would have been impossible… and also didn’t affect the conclusion of the video… OR SO I THOUGHT…
I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn’t make sense to buy… so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn’t really make a difference.
Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn’t mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn’t because I didn’t care about the consumer… it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I’ve watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It’s an astonishingly unforgiving market.
Either way, I’m sorry I got the community’s priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn’t show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn’t to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it’s an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y’know, eat).
With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I’ve never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.
We can test that… with this post. Will the “It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they’re taking care of it” reality manage to have the same reach? Let’s see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it’s been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I’m a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.
Will Linus watch this one or will he just read the comments?
Probably wont find out until next WAN show, and I’m sure we’ll see the same look we see in Lukes eyes every time Linus starts off being blatantly wrong and unable to admit it.
Genuinely gotta wonder how much more of it Luke has in him.
I hope the community doesn’t let him skirt past it on WAN.
I thought they already addressed the water block thing on wan
I remember the mouse, I don’t remember the water block. I don’t recall the part where they auctioned off a prototype though.
I think they discussed it before that happened. I think it was like the week after the video originally came out or something. I think they apologized, but said it still wasn’t good value?
What When he trash the product and company a second time
He already did, you can find it here:
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641
I would quote it, but it is too long to be a reasonable comment.
Wow you’re right that is extremely long. Tldr seems to be he’s saying he didn’t do anything wrong and he’s disappointed Steve didn’t just send him a quick text about it. I feel like it would have been better for Linus to own the mistake at this stage and get the prototype thingy back as it’s not like he’s short on cash or anything. I’d say he comes off like a bit of a jerk. We’ll see how this one shakes out.
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Not every story requires a reaching out for comment.
I don’t feel this story did. Linus is just perturbed Steve didnt reach out and give him an opportunity to pressure Steve into not running the story.
Yeah, either that, or trying to lie to Steve aboht shit like the Billet Labs thing.
It’s ironic that he feels like he’s being bashed by Steve for not contacting him after he bashed an indie company without contacting them prior to posting the review. A review that was very poorly done and, essentially, put them in the worst of lights possible. All right before selling their product on an auction.
What a piece of shit.
I am a fan of Linus. To say he had a bad take is an understatement.
Linus wouldn’t like it that you’re a fan, he hates that whole concept of being a fan
He said he made those mistakes, he’s sorry, he’ll try not to do it again, but they’re not a big deal.
Several step in the narcissist prayer in his response.
That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that’s not a big deal. And if it is, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
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Hes angry that he didnt get the chance to pressure Steve into backing down, Thats all it is.
Remember how aggressive he was on the phone to support staff with the manufacturing requiring their first-party hub for updates (they never claimed to support home assistants in the first place)?
That’s where showed his face and lost it.
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Might be a bad example but that stuck to me: Under no circumstance, you should talk like this to customer service. Always remember that the other end is a human and being rude makes it hard to offer a solution.
.
How do I deal with support? Start nicely (with good companies that’s all you need) and slowly provide hints they screwed up allowing them to keep face as well as being the one offering it instead of reacting to the demand. If they don’t understand: tell them. The last resort is the blacklist (company, date, reason) paired with DNS blocking (in case I forget about it).
.
Want an example of a blacklisted company? Asus.
They don’t have any technical support unless you are an influencer or some big shot buying frequently truckloads of products. I might be able to get somewhere by being a dick but do I always want to push hard to escalate it?
Just call it a day (aka. scrap those products) and buy Asrock. This was definitely a quality-of-life improvement.
.
Btw. Extracting firmware can be difficult. Nordic had a horrific bug in the NRF52, WCH has a bug in the CH552 allowing to out the firmware by software. For ST STM32F it’s complicated. They have a design flaw but exploding it requires decapping the MCU and knowing in which area of the die the readout protection bit is located. Haven’t checked if they fixed it with the newer G, U and MP series.
Best part:
“The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools”
Didn’t even take the time to proofread his response to someone saying he needs to slow down and verify things…
Here’s an unreasonably long quote:
There won’t be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I’ve already said, and I’ve done so privately.
To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn’t go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication… AND the fact that while we haven’t sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I’ve told him that I won’t be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I’ll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of ‘Team Media’. When/if he’s ready to do so again I’ll be ready.
To my team (and my CEO’s team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we’ve been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it’s clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but that’s no excuse for sloppiness.
Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we’ve communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah… What we’re doing hasn’t been in many years, if ever… and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation. That doesn’t mean these things don’t matter. We’ve set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven’t seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you’re really looking for it… The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I’m REALLY excited about what the future will hold.
With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I’ve already addressed above) is an ‘accuracy’ issue. It’s more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again… mystery) would have been impossible… and also didn’t affect the conclusion of the video… OR SO I THOUGHT…
I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn’t make sense to buy… so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn’t really make a difference.
Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn’t mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn’t because I didn’t care about the consumer… it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I’ve watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It’s an astonishingly unforgiving market.
Either way, I’m sorry I got the community’s priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn’t show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn’t to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it’s an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y’know, eat).
With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I’ve never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.
We can test that… with this post. Will the “It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they’re taking care of it” reality manage to have the same reach? Let’s see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it’s been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I’m a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.
Thanks for reading this.
Linustechtips.com server is toast ATM
Only comments. Some new shmuck will have to condense it down to tldr it to him. Hot take will be funny like last time this happened
Almost forgot that happened. Thanks for reminding.