Hi all, As title says, I’d like to know if in your opinion electric vehicles are truly a sustainable solution that fits within the solarpunk vision (given the fact that a community exists here). I work in an urban agriculture association and spend time with engaged and activist people, and it’s pretty much accepted there that EVs are a big scam. What do you think and would you have any recommendations for me to form my own opinion on this topic, which I consider particularly important? Thank you!

  • photon_echo@slrpnk.netEnglish
    1·
    4 days ago

    Okay, I think I understand your position better, thank you.

    The biggest flaw that I see in your approach is that nearly all of those changes require the population to decide to make the changes together. If that agreement isn’t there, the only other way to implement most of those would be with authoritarian decrees. There are places in the world where that is possible, but I wouldn’t call that a recommended solution to apply. A number of your suggestions would require additional funding too. That has to come from somewhere and the origin of that funding is also likely a contentious debate. Without everyone agreeing on the need for these things, few, if any will be implemented and that means more CO2 being emitted.

    For example, ADEME (a French organization) estimates that: “A reduction in average meat consumption of 10 grams per day per person leads to a decrease of approximately 200 square meters in land footprint, as well as a 5.2% reduction in total greenhouse gas emissions.” (Source).

    This is a good one that can be done at an individual level. It requires no agreement other than the person making the choice for themselves. This definitely resonates well on the “punk” of solar punk.

    The meat reduction is the closest thing EVs for your cited solutions. Its an individual choice on the part of the consumer that can have the intended positive impact. That makes it extremely realistic as far as a component on the path to a full solution.

    • dedales@slrpnk.netEnglish
      2·
      4 days ago

      I understand your perspective, and I appreciate the discussion. In France, there are multiple scenarios and budgets that can support these initiatives. In fact, many of the ideas I’ve proposed have already been implemented quickly in places I’ve lived:

      • Removing Parking Spaces for Trees: This is currently being done in Paris.
      • Free and Better Public Transportation: Public transport is completely free for inhabitants of Montpellier.
      • Increasing Bike Lanes: In Montpellier, during the COVID-19 period, they simply used paint and cones to separate old car lanes from the rest of the traffic. The only measure that might face significant budget issues is subsidizing trains and buses. However, this could be funded by introducing or increasing taxes on plane tickets and car ownership. These policies are not authoritarian; they are similar to enforcing seatbelt use, banning smoking in public places or increasing taxes on tobacco.

      I understand your argument comparing meat reduction to EVs, but I believe it’s flawed, at least in my country. The EV sector is heavily subsidized to encourage people to switch their vehicles as soon as possible. We could even argue that the carbon footprint associated with the early replacement of functioning vehicles, driven by fear of ICE vehicle restrictions, should be considered in the total cost.

      • photon_echo@slrpnk.netEnglish
        2·
        4 days ago

        there are multiple scenarios and budgets that can support these initiatives. In fact, many of the ideas I’ve proposed have already been implemented quickly in places I’ve lived:

        All of those things still require dense urban environments. There’s a whole bunch of the world that doesn’t apply to that ICE vehicles rule. EV replacement of any of those ICE vehicles is a net gain for the CO2 reduction movement.

        We could even argue that the carbon footprint associated with the early replacement of functioning vehicles, driven by fear of ICE vehicle restrictions, should be considered in the total cost.

        That would be a valid argument if the replaced ICE vehicles were immediately going to the scrapyard, but I think you’d agree with me that isn’t what is happening with a replaced ICE vehicle. Further, I stipulated that I wasn’t advocating for people with nearly new ICE vehicles to immediately got out and buy an EV, but instead when they are planning on replacing their ICE with another ICE, and EV would be a better choice for the environment.

        Here’s some data. 6.8% of new cars in the USA are EVs. That 6.8% replaced otherwise ICE vehicle purchases. I think if you’d ask most climate scientists if nearly 7% of new cars no longer running on fossil fuels they would say thats a substantial improvement.