Honestly, aside from what Mangione did and whether it can be justified, I just think this shows how America-brained so much of the UK is. The guy lives and committed his crime on the other side of the ocean in a context which does not exist in this country. I would personally prefer for him not to be executed but I don’t understand what anyone’s thinking when they use him as an icon over here.
The guy lives and committed his crime on the other side of the ocean in a context which does not exist in this country.
The word “tenement” has a negative connotation specifically because of the UK’s treatment of the working poor. The Grenfell Tower was only 8 years ago. You guys might not have the health insurance issue we have but you certainly have the “Parasite class killing and causing suffering for monetary gain” problem that is the root cause of both issues.
By far the most coherent response, thank you. I still think the contexts are sufficiently different that I find it odd that anyone would feel the need to paint his face on a wall thousands of miles away.
You don’t understand why a country full of oppressed people enslaved to billionaires would empathise with citizens of another country experiencing similar oppression? Why not?
I think you probably understand why it’s ridiculous when right wingers say that socialised healthcare = Stalinism, and so on an identical basis you should see it’s ridiculous to describe the people of the UK as oppressed slaves.
Me. But I should add that a system of wages and salaries is not slavery, and that part of the reason I know this is that actual slaves really, really want instead to be paid a wage or a salary.
Luigi Mangione did not do anything. He allegedly killed someone. He is innocent until he is proven guilty. You cant assume that just because someone is suspected for committing a crime, they actually committed the crime
You forgot the last part of that phrase: innocent until proven guilty IN A COURT OF LAW. We are not in a court of law, we’re in the the court of public opinions, where I can, and will, say I think he did it. Doesn’t mean I think he did anything wrong though.
Okay, this isn’t a court and it’s absolutely fine for people in casual conversation to say he did something when there’s strong evidence that he did.
Strictly speaking if he yelled ‘I did it and I’d do it again’ at the cameras on his way into court, he’d still be ‘innocent till proven guilty’ but no one would insist that actually meant he ‘hadn’t done it’. EDIT: Actually, strictly speaking, he’d still be ‘innocent’ under a strict definition after pleading guilty but before the jury pronounced him so.
In any case, as to our wider discussion, you’d then be disagreeing with many of the people here and arguing that people painted his face on a wall because he didn’t do anything.
I don’t understand what anyone’s thinking when they use him as an icon over here.
We are also governed by billionaires who own our press and control our politicians. It doesn’t matter that Mangione did what he did three and a half thousand miles away, what matters is that he is a symbol for the ultimate sanction the people can have against a billionaire class who are otherwise unaccountable and untouchable.
EDIT: I mean, guys, you could try the path of ‘You can’t trust the systems any more! The only choice is to ignore the law and inflict arbitrary punishments on people we dislike!’ but it is not one that leads to leftist utopia.
The cost of living crisis is global. Exploitation of labour is global. Everything for profit’s sake is global. Climate action being hampered due to corporate interests is global. Wealth inequality rising is global.
What’s the alternative? Continuing as we have so far? Doesn’t seem to have worked out so great.
There is quite a range of options between continuing as you say we are and shooting people in the street. Again, enacting arbitrary violence against perceived enemies is literally what Trump is doing. This is not the path to take. Like all people calling for this kind of violence, you are assuming it won’t be inflicted on you or anyone you like, but that is not what history suggests will happen.
Are you being purposefully obtuse? You could say the exact same thing about Robin Hood.
It just goes to show how England brained America is. What business does America have making movies and TV shows about a 12th Century English folk hero? America hadn’t even been discovered in the 12th Century, how can you have context in the US for his actions?
It’s a story about a little guy who broke the law to stand up for the greater good while risking his own life to do so. That kind of heroism is borderless. Luigi Mangione may have killed one person but the person he killed was responsible for the death and chronic pain of thousands. I think we English understand that very well indeed.
I just think this shows how America-brained so much of the UK is.
Yep, they already had the majority of brands and culture back in the 80s and 90’s but since the internet and especially since social media we’ve never been so american
Speaking as a Dutchie, I hope the big American middle finger (and Hitler salute) will at least lead to their culture not being so omnipresent in European countries anymore.
Honestly, aside from what Mangione did and whether it can be justified, I just think this shows how America-brained so much of the UK is. The guy lives and committed his crime on the other side of the ocean in a context which does not exist in this country. I would personally prefer for him not to be executed but I don’t understand what anyone’s thinking when they use him as an icon over here.
The word “tenement” has a negative connotation specifically because of the UK’s treatment of the working poor. The Grenfell Tower was only 8 years ago. You guys might not have the health insurance issue we have but you certainly have the “Parasite class killing and causing suffering for monetary gain” problem that is the root cause of both issues.
By far the most coherent response, thank you. I still think the contexts are sufficiently different that I find it odd that anyone would feel the need to paint his face on a wall thousands of miles away.
You don’t understand why a country full of oppressed people enslaved to billionaires would empathise with citizens of another country experiencing similar oppression? Why not?
I think you probably understand why it’s ridiculous when right wingers say that socialised healthcare = Stalinism, and so on an identical basis you should see it’s ridiculous to describe the people of the UK as oppressed slaves.
Who is most of the income you generate going to, if not a billionaire, or multi billionaires?
Me. But I should add that a system of wages and salaries is not slavery, and that part of the reason I know this is that actual slaves really, really want instead to be paid a wage or a salary.
i mean cmon usa isnt the only place where a lot of people want some rly rich people to die
Luigi Mangione did not do anything. He allegedly killed someone. He is innocent until he is proven guilty. You cant assume that just because someone is suspected for committing a crime, they actually committed the crime
You forgot the last part of that phrase: innocent until proven guilty IN A COURT OF LAW. We are not in a court of law, we’re in the the court of public opinions, where I can, and will, say I think he did it. Doesn’t mean I think he did anything wrong though.
Okay, this isn’t a court and it’s absolutely fine for people in casual conversation to say he did something when there’s strong evidence that he did.
Strictly speaking if he yelled ‘I did it and I’d do it again’ at the cameras on his way into court, he’d still be ‘innocent till proven guilty’ but no one would insist that actually meant he ‘hadn’t done it’. EDIT: Actually, strictly speaking, he’d still be ‘innocent’ under a strict definition after pleading guilty but before the jury pronounced him so.
In any case, as to our wider discussion, you’d then be disagreeing with many of the people here and arguing that people painted his face on a wall because he didn’t do anything.
We are also governed by billionaires who own our press and control our politicians. It doesn’t matter that Mangione did what he did three and a half thousand miles away, what matters is that he is a symbol for the ultimate sanction the people can have against a billionaire class who are otherwise unaccountable and untouchable.
Brian Thompson was not a billionaire. As for the ‘unaccountable’ class our side of the pond, just yesterday a prominent political megadonor and former hedge fund manager was banned from working in financial services, so neither side of your analogy stands up to very much scrutiny.
EDIT: I mean, guys, you could try the path of ‘You can’t trust the systems any more! The only choice is to ignore the law and inflict arbitrary punishments on people we dislike!’ but it is not one that leads to leftist utopia.
The cost of living crisis is global. Exploitation of labour is global. Everything for profit’s sake is global. Climate action being hampered due to corporate interests is global. Wealth inequality rising is global.
What’s the alternative? Continuing as we have so far? Doesn’t seem to have worked out so great.
There is quite a range of options between continuing as you say we are and shooting people in the street. Again, enacting arbitrary violence against perceived enemies is literally what Trump is doing. This is not the path to take. Like all people calling for this kind of violence, you are assuming it won’t be inflicted on you or anyone you like, but that is not what history suggests will happen.
Incidentally, another way the UK is not like the US is that carbon emissions are falling in the UK.
Are you being purposefully obtuse? You could say the exact same thing about Robin Hood.
It just goes to show how England brained America is. What business does America have making movies and TV shows about a 12th Century English folk hero? America hadn’t even been discovered in the 12th Century, how can you have context in the US for his actions?
It’s a story about a little guy who broke the law to stand up for the greater good while risking his own life to do so. That kind of heroism is borderless. Luigi Mangione may have killed one person but the person he killed was responsible for the death and chronic pain of thousands. I think we English understand that very well indeed.
Fictional characters and real people are not actually the same kind of thing, and how people read them are not equivalent.
You are clearly someone who does not understand nuance.
Ironically, your statement lacks nuance.
You’re only saying that because you don’t understand it.
Touché.
I’m sure there are greedy shenanigans that happen without consequence in the UK, too.
Yep, they already had the majority of brands and culture back in the 80s and 90’s but since the internet and especially since social media we’ve never been so american
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM Comments are turned off.
Speaking as a Dutchie, I hope the big American middle finger (and Hitler salute) will at least lead to their culture not being so omnipresent in European countries anymore.
I’d like that for Feddit too, actually…
The UK: America without so much fascism and with better health care!
deleted by creator