I have seen in many US shows where they portray guys who are living with parents as losers, or there are jokes or memes about it, I never get it.
Traditionally, being self sufficient enough to move out of your parents house and live on your own was considered a major, basic, and early benchmark of growing up, adulthood, and success. Sort of like taking your first steps, it was just considered a “bare minimum” benchmark.
That impression, the idea of moving out on your own being the bare minimum start to being a successful adult, has not kept up with the modern age and the economy we’ve grown up in. The idea that anyone should be able to move out on their own came about in an age when a single adult working a basic job full time could afford a house and support a family on their income alone. That just is not even close to the case now, but some societal memes take longer to change than others.
It’s this. This is the eloquent and succinct answer OP. No an upvote wouldn’t have been enough.
I’ve been looking for rentals lately. Every inspection has dozens upon dozens of people show up. Rental vacancies are at a tiny fraction of a percent. No landlord will take someone if the rent will cost more than 30% of their income. To qualify for a studio apartment it takes almost double the median wage.
I hate it so much. I’ve budgeted so that I know I can afford these places on my income, I have a significant pile of savings and a stable job. I have been looking for a place for six months and been rejected from them all.
I’ve given up. Even if I could get a place it’d be cheaper to pay a fucking mortgage.
Very very well put.
I’ll just add that it’s hard to fuck in a house full of your parents, and few people want to deal with that.
For 58 years young people had enough income to support themselves fine, so living with your parents was due to either fear of being out on your own, laziness, or another dependency. All unattractive qualities.
The idea that if you’re still living at home that your parents are still taking care of you. That they still make your food, do you laundry, pay your bills, etc. there is also a stereotype that you’re emotionally stunted since you haven’t moved out and had to take care of yourself. This is often summarized in the neck beard living in his parents basement meme.
I’m not saying this is true, but that’s the idea.
Thats what they sell you, the real reason is that people living with their parents are not spending money in the house market.
No, that isn’t it
Well, yeah, but there was a time when you could buy a brand new home for like $125.99, and at that price point living at your parents house would have been weird.
Implication is that you’re incapable of being self sufficient.
Too broke to move out, your parents still cook for you / do your laundry, can’t bring a girl home without your parents hearing you get it on, etc.
Implication is that you’re incapable of being self sufficient.
Holdover stereotype from when living on your own with a service job was realistically doable. Which just flat out is not the case in most cities now.
Although not wanting your parents hear you bang is totally fair.
Agreed. I think this is more of a late 90s / early 2000s thing. It’s become more acceptable today for sure, especially if you’re going to university or something.
In the US, wages were high enough that you could afford rent and a decent living as an unskilled laborer until fairly recently.
Also, if you lived with your parents you could not fuck. Even if your parents were not religious, it was a social value and they probably weren’t cool with it. And your date probably wasn’t cool with it wither, because it was weird.
I assume you are American, and probably not Hispanic?
Because these assumptions are extremely cultural.
Anyways, for white Americans “Self-sufficiency” (or Self-reliance as Ralph Waldo Emmerson called an extreme version of it) is an old Puritan value, like hardwork and lifelong monogamy.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You’re not off base. My family is Hispanic and my mom would love it if I lived with her till I’m 40.
Multigenerational living is also a big thing in Asia.
Not just cultural, but also time sensitive. If this were even 10 years ago then living with your parents would seem like weird, but today? Understand why it would still live at home or live with a person or multiple people even
I disagree that the culture currents have changed that fast.
If the economy recovered and gave much better prospects for young people and housing was cheaper, they’d still be expected to move out on their own.
I think people understand the realities of our current situation, but usually multigenerational housing is still not considered an ideal situation.
I’m 23 and still living with my dad. Why wouldn’t I take the deal to have no rent while I work full time at a decent job so I can pay off my student loans? Sounds stupid to move out at least for me right now
Why dont you pay him any rent? Houses are expensive and you are using electricity, water, gas etc. Im sure he would appreciate it if you just decided to pay your way.
Edit: Since im being downvoted i want to add some context.
The tone of the message im responding to (or at least the way it read to me) was that this person is taking advantage of their dad. They said
Why wouldn’t I take the deal to have no rent while I work full time at a decent job so I can pay off my student loans? Sounds stupid to move out at least for me right now
It doesn’t come off like they have discussed and agreed on anything with their dad.
It sounds like they are earning a decent wage and haven’t even considered getting their own place.
It sounds like they want to milk their dads generosity for everything they can so they can have an easier life.
Now ABSOLUTELY i cant be sure and could be completely wrong. But that’s how it reads. Like they don’t give a shit and are acting selfishly and dont even see how its selfish.
To be clear, i dont think the dad should impose rent or any kind of fee on them. I know how hard it is to get a home as a young person, and i likely won’t be asking my kids for rent. I just found the attitude i perceived in that post to be asinine.
When my kids are old enough to be in that position, I’ll tell em to use it on debt first, too.
Nailed it. Debt paid down in your twenties is gone.
Debt you barely service until your forties…. Never goes away.
Its gonna be so much harder for them than it was for me in the early 2000s. I know my generation’s parents expected most of us to end off better than they did, but I don’t feel like anybody who graduated high school after 2008 ever had a chance and it’s just fucking heartbreaking.
Have child Paying rent while in debt is kind of counter productive If your goal as a parent is to maximize success of your children. Even if they were debt free I’ll probably just pocket the money into a ETF or something fo when they need a house.
if your goal as a parent is to maximize success of your children.
“Success” is very subjective.
Sure I can’t disagree but money allows for options. Why force your children to burn more money in interest than needed if you can afford it. Faster they pay off loans faster they can prosper on thier own.
This is also age and culturally contextual. If kid and dad are on the same page about why junior is still living there, and if Dad is financially secure, he may want kid to pay down debt and be ready to jump straight to a nice place of their own. Now, if the family unit overall could use the help, and there is no specific plan for junior to move out, and and they’re just sandbagging to have more money in their pocket after paying down student loans, it could be kinda shitty. Paying down the debt is not bad; minimizing overall cost of living for the family is not bad; what Boop2133 does with their money beyond loan payments might be bad.
It comes from the Individualism ideology that Western culture holds dear. Americans just hold it tighter. It can be argued that the cause of this is American capitalism, which has greater focus on measuring success by one’s ability to consume (can you afford it, how much can you afford, are you self-reliant, your ability to consume more and better than you did last year).
I’d add on that the expectation in an individualist society like the US is to become independent and move out. Those ideas are used synonymously in a lot of contexts. Someone who hasn’t moved out can be seen as lacking independence. Of course that isn’t necessarily true, but it’s the perception.
For a young person growing up with these ideas as the standard, there can be a certain safety in forgoing that independence. That was my situation for years, where I was financially independent, but moved back home after my roommates moved away. I was in my mid twenties before I moved out for good.
It isn’t anymore. That’s dead.
It was, like 25 years ago. Well, maybe 15 years ago.
Pre-2007.
Because back then people were making good money out of college, and they were able to buy a house for themselves. Shit, they didn’t even need to go to college. As long as you were working hard before 2007, and you were going to be able to find a down payment on a house as long as you didn’t have some kind of financial affliction.
That’s not to say that gen X had it easy as compared to those before them, but there’s a clear separation.
Millennials tried their hardest not to live at home, just because of the social stigma.
Gen Z is feeling that stigma less. That’s why you’re probably here questioning why it’s even a thing. You’re probably Gen Z.
Jen alpha won’t see it as strange.
I really hope the stigma goes away because unless the world economy improves, a lot of people will have to stay with parents until a lot later in life.
It is a cultural thing though. It’s not an issue at all in most of SE Asia.
Because it used to be a sign that someone was unsuccessful or “lazy”. Now it just means the housing market is absolute dog shit, and people making 200k a year still can’t afford to buy a house near their work.
Multi-generational households have been the most common form of familial living arrangements in human history, so, take that as you will.
It suggests they can’t afford to pay rent. It’s an old stereotype that is kind of redundant nowadays since (a) most people renting can’t afford it anymore and (b) different cultures are way more accepting and even encouraged living with your family. Most people understand that now.
You still here the saying buts it’s more about NEETs taking advantage of family rather than being smart
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Some people get paid to live there and clean the place, but it’s becoming a thing of the past as the individual tasks get compartmentalized by specialist jobs. Why hire a full time custodian, landscaper, heavy equipment operator, and records keeper extraordinaire when you could just hire part timers and contractors for each as needed?
It depends on your age. Living with your parents at 10 is different than 20 and is different than 40.
Ever since I was older than 25 or so, if I was going to go on a date with someone, if they lived with their parents that’s a huge complication. How’re we going to fuck? What if their parents don’t have good boundaries? How can I gauge if they know how to be an adult? Like, what if their mom still does their laundry and they don’t know how to take care of themselves?
It’s a proxy measurement for independence and being able to take care of themselves.
It’s a little different if they’re taking care of their parents. Still not great, but doesn’t have the “Do they even know how to take care of themselves?” problems.
Because then you can’t yodel while fucking your girlfriend/boyfriend.
This is one reason “love hotels” are a thing in Japan where multi-generational living and/or thin walls are very common.
Well, you can… it’ll just be really uncomfortable around the dinner table afterward.
Because they’re racist cult members and visits are awkward enough let alone living there. Might just be me tho
r/QanonCasualties . Lemmy doesn’t have an equivalent yet but you’re not alone
