- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
Science Advances report also finds people of color and low-income residents in US disproportionately affected
Using a gas stove increases nitrogen dioxide exposure to levels that exceed public health recommendations, a new study shows. The report, published Friday in Science Advances, found that people of color and low-income residents in the US were disproportionately affected.
Indoor gas and propane appliances raise average concentrations of the harmful pollutant, also known as NO2, to 75% of the World Health Organization’s standard for indoor and outdoor exposure.
That means even if a person avoids exposure to nitrogen dioxide from traffic exhaust, power plants, or other sources, by cooking with a gas stove they will have already breathed in three-quarters of what is considered a safe limit.
“When you’re using a gas stove, you are burning fossil fuel directly in the home,” said Yannai Kashtan, lead author of the study and a PhD candidate at Stanford University. “Ventilation does help but it’s an imperfect solution and ultimately the best way is to reduce pollution at the source.”
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I want to say now since we just got one that modern glass-top electric stoves are pretty great. They heat up quickly and they’re very easy to clean. So the latter part is already a huge advantage over gas stoves.
We didn’t even get a fancy one or anything. A basic model.
They heat up quickly and they’re very easy to clean.
I keep seeing people say this as a benefit of glass-top electrics, but this has never been the case with any one of those I’ve used. A boil-over invariably leaves a grimy black ring that can’t be scrubbed off even with hours of scrubbing. So they end up looking grimy.
Meanwhile, my sealed gas burners are easy to get clean. I just sweep up the crumbs and then dump some boiling water and a couple drops of dish soap and wipe it up.
I just spent almost two weeks on vacation in an apartment with an induction stove. I’ve had gas my whole life. I was impressed. It heated the pans faster and more evenly, the temperature was more tuneable and it was easy to clean.
While standard resistive stoves do get those rings, the inductive one almost certainly wouldn’t, because the glass only gets heated by the pan, rather than the other way around.
The only difficulty was the Samsung UX. It was a bit of a chore to get the pan centered on the coil, and there was insufficient feedback when you got it right or wrong and if it wasn’t in the right place it just wouldn’t work. I got used to it, but I’d have liked some better markings, and an LED ring that would show when it was on. It also didn’t automatically heat the pan quickly on startup. You had to set it to 9, then back off, otherwise it would heat the pan on a duty cycle.
If I were to upgrade my kitchen, I’d absolutely go with induction. However, even beyond my usual research, I’d make damn sure I got the best option on this. I love cooking too much to screw it up.
We were going to go with induction, but it was just too expensive.
My main beef is that I have pretty thorough knowledge of appliance warranties and induction stoves are near impossible to repair. I think it’s partially because the techs don’t know how they actually work, so getting an accurate diagnosis was rough. Most of the time they had to be replaced outright.
If I were to get one I’d probably get a countertop one with a single burner so that if it fails I don’t have to replace the whole induction range, I can just replace that single point of failure.
You also need specific cookware and we’d have to replace a lot of ours.
You mean no aluminium or copper? Im not sure if that’s difficult tp remember or do. Am i missing something?
No glass either. We have a bunch of glass pots.
Pick up a portable induction HOB and use it on the side. Even though the cheap ones are pretty crappy in many regards, they still work great for what they are and give a good idea of what to expect from a high quality one.
Side note on cost, the inflation reduction act provides rebates to switch to induction.
What were you using to clean? I’ve been able to get those rings off with the regular glass cooktop cleaner and a little elbow grease. You could probably use something a little more abrasive but still glass-safe if you wanted.
My main issue was it’s harder to get greases off completely instead of leaving a slight streaky film, but that’s mostly just an aesthetic concern.
I’m using a non-scratching scrubbing pad and the recommended stovetop cleaner. I can get most of the worst of it, but there’s always a ring of carbonized food that just sticks around.
A boil-over invariably leaves a grimy black ring that can’t be scrubbed off even with hours of scrubbing.
I expect it would depend on what cleaning product you use. Bar Keepers Friend does wonders on stainless steel; perhaps it’s safe for glass as well?
Admittedly we’ve only had it about a month now, but it’s been fine so far.
A word of warning: if it’s a Samsung appliance it will fail within the first year, or right outside of it. Samsung appliances are garbage, their electronics are solid.
Even the electronics are kinda crap, the number of samsung monitors I’ve seen die on people is absurd, and then they try to weasel out of the warranty
It’s a GE.
Induction, or just standard electric burners under glass?
The latter.
Same. The upgrade in cleaning effort is beyond words. These are what the “rich people” had when I was a teenager. I’ve just inherited my first. I yearn for the induction model, though.
I bought an induction hot plate that I keep on the counter next to the stovetop. Not only do I get a fifth burner, it heats up confusingly fast. It’s incredible for boiling a large pot of water.
I have an induction hot plate and while it’s great for boiling water or searing steak it will invariably burn anything I attempt to cook on low because it just uses high heat for a shorter amount of time instead of doing a constant lower power.
I’m probably going to get an induction stove next, but I’m not buying one that I don’t get to test out first to avoid this. I really hope the full-size ones don’t do this but I don’t trust companies on principle and they’ll do something stupid like that to save money.
What kind of pan are you using? Maybe a heavier one like cast iron would work better.
But I’ve used regular full ones and they didn’t have that issue. I’ve also seen them used just fine in commercial kitchens.
I’ve used both cheap steel pans and cast iron, and while the effect is less it still turns my sweated onions into sauteed onions intermittently. I’m glad to hear that mine is just built cheaply and that proper induction tops can handle consistent low temperature better. Still not buying one without trying it, though
Honestly, I would love a stove that’s just a 3" thick steel top with induction burners on one side. There would be a steady temperature gradient the whole way across, and pans of any size, shape, or material could be put anywhere on the surface for just the right amount of heat.
I’ve been considering replacing our gas stove with an Indication range.
We were going to, but they’re so much more expensive than electric. We did opt for a conventional plus convection oven though. That was definitely a good purchase.
Convection ovens are game changers for sure. Our current one is convection. We haven’t gotten an Induction range one yet due to the pricing.
Between the cost of the range and the fact that we would have to replace a bunch of our cookware, it just wasn’t worth what we would have to spend.
That’s fair
Thanks for sharing!
Any additional information you may like to share or any links or research you did before buying?
Pros and cons you have seen, over the weeks/years?
Good or cheap basic model, $700 plus?
I’m sorry, I don’t. My wife did all of the research and stuff for it because I was focused on health issues (also, she’s a librarian, so research is her thing). All I said was try to get one that didn’t involve some stupid app or whatever.
I’m not even 100% sure what model it is because I just looked and I can’t see if it says anywhere. It’s a GE and they have a whole ton of models on their website, so I couldn’t tell you, but I’m guessing she paid significantly less than $1000 for it.
She’s still asleep, but if I remember to ask her when she wakes up, I will.
Thanks for taking the time to explain what you can!
Sorry to hear about the health issues, I hope you are doing better!
edit: format
Anyone with more/better info or experience please feel free to chime in!
Quick search results:
Seems cheapest I found from:
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GE ~$528 no tax included, at local diy chain store and big tech store
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GE site: $588 no tax
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costco $679.99 no tax
Gas to Electric: An electrician will be needed to exchange the 110-volt outlet to a 220/240-volt outlet.
Gas:
Elec.:
https://www.hgtv.com/design/rooms/kitchens/gas-vs-electric-ranges-is-one-better-than-the-other
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/pros-and-cons-of-gas-vs-electric-cooking
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/appliances/g2875/best-electric-ranges/
Yeah we have a propane stove, I think it’s cleaner than natural gas, but we’re rural and we lose power more often than urban zones.
The study in this post says it’s not.
Yeah :(. No winning yet.
I think it’s cleaner than natural gas
My searching shows me a lot of astroturfing on both sides of that debate, which makes me think it’s either far more complicated than that or we don’t actually know.
Oh undoubtedly there is a lot of biases to sift through.
Your power network is really letting you down with how uncommon the damn things are. Glass cooktops in Europe are like 200€ for a decent 60cm one nowadays.
Apparently it’s a big PITA to get the model number because it involves opening the range up, so I told her not to bother, but she says the oven is both standard and convection if that helps.
Thanks for your effort!
That is appreciated!
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Love my new induction stove! Our old gas stove was leaking and could have blown up the house. We’ve noticed a lot less waste heat too, metal pan handles can be grabbed without a hot pad, the kitchen doesn’t heat up as much from cooking. And it heats up blazingly fast.
What’s the response time like when reducing heat?
The heat goes down immediately with most pans. Cast iron retains more heat though.
We went to the thrift store with a fridge magnet to buy our new pans, stainless steel lasts a long time
It is nearly instantly. Heat is generated in the pot directly, not in/on the stove, so there is nothing else which stores the energy, like the plates in older ones.
I’m looking to switch to a induction stove when my current gas stove dies. Do you happen to know what amperage was needed on yours?
Ours was 50 amp, which seems to be pretty common for 30-36in wide cooktops
Can i ask what brand? And what the oven runs on – i assume electric? I’m interested, but have always used terrible electric coils or gas.
Yeah we went with the GE Profile 36in induction cooktop.
It’s more responsive than either gas or electric coils. The catch is you need pans that a fridge magnet will stick to. A trip to the thrift store with a magnet worked out for us.
Given the EPAs policy on natural gas leaks was to ask the gas companies if they’ve noticed anything, I’d say we’ve got some distance to go on stopping the sale of natural gas stoves.
Climate Town has a good video on this subject - and others - that might be a good watch.
The biggest problem with leaving gas stoves is all the older homes that simply are not equipped for them. Many homes with gas not only lack 240v 30a outlets in their kitchens, they may have only 100 or even 60 amp service and may not be able to even add such a circuit. Upgrading to electric could easily cost homeowners 5 figures.
Sounds like the solution is to increase the cost of gas until it costs more than 5 figures to continue using it.
Putting the screws to poor people won’t improve the situation.
With governments refusing to take action to wean society off of fossil fuels, screwing poor people is an inevitability. The stuff is finite, eventually it runs out and the prices become unaffordable before the end.
Also want to shout out Technology Connections’ video.
Folks this is a garbage study. N=18, and then extrapolating the dangers based on aggregated stats of disease states?
Yeah. I still want an induction stove, but this doesn’t look good.
Same, I want both, with proper ventilation.
Gas for particular preparations where it’s traditional/ideal and induction for everything else
There are plenty of valid reasons for wanting one. I’m not against them. They just don’t suit my particular use case, and I hate deliberately misleading studies.
NO2 exposure hazards are already known, see the references in this study. This is only looking at NO2 production in homes, so I don’t think 18 is too small a sample size. It’s not like they’re trying to determine whether burning natural gas produces NO2, that’s a given. They’re looking at how much, how factors like hoods and airflow affect it, and how it goes throughout the house, not just in the kitchen.
TBH the sample is less concerning than the experimental design, and by a lot.
That’s a fair point and needs to be explored. But the study does not do what it says on the tin.
In NYC, this is actually a major concern since most kitchens don’t even have ventilation. Of my four apartments here, only one has had any form of ventilation in the kitchen.
I’m surprised that’s even legal.
Are you really? NY’s housing market is an absolute scam. Landlords are allowed to neglect their buildings until it gets so bad that the punishment for neglect is Riker’s since any fines get taken out on their tenants. Something like 80% of residential buildings are owned by corporations.
True I forgot how broken the legal system is in NY.
I’m surprised gas anything is still common in some countries. Here, gas is pretty rare nowadays and only some apartments in the biggest cities even have any gas lines.
My new build house (built and bought last year) has a gas stove, furnace, dryer, and water heater. I’m in the US 🫠
I get it. I do. But electric stoves are just meh. Gas burns quicker and more evenly. But if it comes down to it and I need to switch I will no problem. I just wish there was a solution to the cooking with gas issue as it cooks best imo
Induction is the fastest and most even.
They are also more expensive.
Yeah, a lot of it is just artificial markup though. It’s a very simple technology.
I don’t know what the full range is doing differently, but the portable induction cooktops are very cheap and they seem like they do the same thing. Doesn’t seem like an induction range would be more expensive than a regular electric range other than artificial markup like you said.
We don’t have a gas stove but we do have a gas fireplace and water heater that have saved us a couple times now in winter when we’ve had prolonged power outages due to severe ice storms snapping half the trees in the area and taking all the power lines with them. This allowed us to have heat and hot water and if we had a gas stove, cooking as well.
Yup yup. I’m in Oklahoma and am VERY familiar with ice storms that knock power out. Luckily I have a furnace that can run off of gas or electric, so I can still have heat so long as I power the outlet for said furnace off my truck. But the gas fireplace burns no matter the situation. My power got knocked out on the coldest day of the year last year. Wind chill was around -6 and gas literally saved my butt from freezing off
Chud cocks shotgun
“Gonna take mah stove outta my cold dead hands.”
I feel like this is considered common sense. Burning anything indoors increases exposure to bad chemicals. Well ventilated areas are required and we don’t have good regulation on that. Improve air quality with safe daily consumption and enforce it. Invest in public transportation, what is a safe level to reduce our exhaust output. People and companies then hold them responsible. : Common sense stuff
I’m guessing this is a non issue in a well ventilated area?
“Well-ventilated” being a higher standard than you’d probably expect, but yes. Standard over-range extractor isn’t doing enough.
It’s like you didn’t even read the pithy article much less the study behind it.
“study”
I mean feel free to push back on any of the data the study provided. I mean I thought they could have done a better job with the effects of having a range hood but since that has been studied elsewhere and cited, I feel that it was acceptable with the scope they outlined.
I really shouldn’t have to. As the study noted the homes they found with poor indoor quality had poor outdoor quality. Which means the oven really has little to do with it.
NOX is a product of incomplete diesel consumption. Do you want less NOX? Newer tighter regulations on trucks and give cops the power to pull over any truck with obvious air problems. After you do that let me know what the data in poor industrial areas shows. This whole study is garbage, it’s like proving that homes without air-conditioning are hotter than homes with it, int eh same area. Yeah kinda figured.
Oh and don’t give me any bullshit about how trucks can’t get NOX down. All ships flagged in the EU did it 6 years ago.
WTF are you talking about? You’re not even in the realm of the study anymore with your rantings here.
from the abstract:
Gas and propane stoves emit nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution indoors, but the exposures of different U.S. demographic groups are unknown. We estimate NO2 exposure and health consequences using emissions and concentration measurements from >100 homes, a room-specific indoor air quality model, epidemiological risk parameters, and statistical sampling of housing characteristics and occupant behavior. Gas and propane stoves increase long-term NO2 exposure 4.0 parts per billion volume on average across the United States, 75% of the World Health Organization’s exposure guideline. This increased exposure likely causes ~50,000 cases of current pediatric asthma from long-term NO2 exposure alone. Short-term NO2 exposure from typical gas stove use frequently exceeds both World Health Organization and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency benchmarks. People living in residences <800 ft2 in size incur four times more long-term NO2 exposure than people in residences >3000 ft2 in size; American Indian/Alaska Native and Black and Hispanic/Latino households incur 60 and 20% more NO2 exposure, respectively, than the national average.
They took samples before and after gas stoves were turned on inside various rooms in various houses and they state all of that in the study that that shit came from the stove and increased the levels of NO2 above WHO standards and not the outdoor environment. They’re stating that gas stoves are problematic especially in lower income dwellings.
Also FTFS:
Consistent with previous research (10, 24, 25), we find that combustion from gas and propane stoves represents a major source of long- and short-term NO2 exposure that can exceed U.S. and WHO guidelines just by using a stove, independent of any outdoor NO2 exposures.
So again WTF are you on about?
N=18. No control.
Not convinced.
Edit: 6/17 quoted not 7/17
Nitrogen dioxide irritates the airways and can exacerbate respiratory illnesses such as asthma. The Stanford study estimates that chronic stove-based nitrogen dioxide exposure is linked to at least 50,000 cases of pediatric asthma in the United States each year. The research, which measured NO2 in more than 100 homes before, during, and after gas stove use, found that pollution migrates to bedrooms within an hour of the stove turning on, and stays above dangerous levels for hours after use.
The results also highlight the unequal racial and socioeconomic burden of exposure. The study found that American Indians and Alaska Natives are exposed to 60% more NO2 from gas and propane stoves than the national average. Black and Latino or Hispanic households breathe in 20% more NO2 from their stoves.
People in households making less than $10,000 a year are breathing NO2 at rates more than twice that of people in households making over $150,000.
“People in poorer communities are more at risk because their outdoor air is bad and and in many ways their indoor air is worse,” said Jackson. Low-income communities and communities of color are more likely to live near highways, ports, industrial sites and other polluting zones.
“There’s an underlying assumption that people are only using their stove or oven to cook and to prepare meals,” said Diana Hernandez, sociologist at Columbia University who was not involved in the Stanford study. A recent survey conducted by Hernandez and her team found that over 20% of New Yorkers used stoves or ovens to heat their homes.
Gas stoves also emit methane, a potent greenhouse gas, and cities across the US are adopting building electrification measures that would phase out gas stoves in new homes.
6/17 quoted
Seems to me the solution is to make outdoor air better rather than demand people just freeze to death during a blackout.
Joe Manchin enters the chat
What’s with the recent push in MSM against gas stoves?
Lobbying by landlords. It is far cheaper for them to have individual apartments (with paper thing walls) that are responsible for their own heat vs a big concrete brownstone with a super efficient boiler moving energy around.
This is why the “study” explains how it “really” benefits the poor. You know the same way slave owners were altruistically helping their slaves. But the shills will lap it up. Who gives a shit right? The important thing is landlord capital not if poor people die because of a blackout.
Facts you don’t like are still facts.
“‘Bumma commin’ fer ma stove!!!1!!1!!!”, in 5, 4, 3, …
ITT: Energy wasters (electric or gas) wrecking the environment by cooking food when they should be eating nothing but whole, raw, unprocessed vegetables. And maybe splurge on some fruit every now and then.
Yeah. Everybody is also wasting electricity on treadmills when they should be chasing deer down by foot to get their exercise lmao
That’s cruel to the deer. They should be chasing eggplants.
This is just a dumb take
I held back. I was gonna go full fruitarian.
Also failed to mention locally-sourced.
You have pretty strong opinions on how other people should live life. I wonder where you alone got the ability to determine how people should live. Did some lady in a lake award you a sword?
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
These rich ass holes want to make our gasoline less efficient by taking the lead out of it 😡😡😡
