This. Reading this thread makes me sad and wonder where I went wrong in life.
Maybe I shouldn’t have chosen IT as a career. Or maybe my parents shouldn’t have sent me to an all-boys school, which made me shy and awkward around girls even in my later years. Maybe I should’ve fooled around in my college and uni days, instead of concentrating on my studies. What did all my efforts get me? What was I even working so hard for? Forget being in a relationship, I haven’t even kissed a girl yet. Sigh.
Hey, don’t be hard on yourself like that. Sometimes things happen or don’t happen, and we don’t have a clue why. Time can pass so quickly and we can lose ourselves so easily.
But that doesn’t diminish you in any way. I know what I’m talking about. I lost the best years of my life, and no one will ever understand or have some sympathy for it. People are too quickly to judge or to give weird “advices” that feel much more like a kick than anything else. Our lives are so complex and can’t be reduced to simple encouragement words.
I’d advise you to explore yourself a bit more. Perhaps you’re restraining yourself somehow, perhaps you had a too restrictive environment, perhaps you have some undiagnosed condition (that was my case), perhaps something else. Sometimes we try to live life forcing ourselves to be what others expect of us, and we will fail so miserably, but we can live as who we are, and things start to improve progressively.
Relationships take effort and luck. You have to work on yourself to be prepared, put a lot out of effort into social things to meet people and develop relationships, and then most don’t work out and you’re sad for a bit.
The luck part is a huge part of the equation. Two people are perfect on paper but the “spark” doesn’t happen. Maybe they could have a great relationship but the starting conditions weren’t right to form a relationship. Having a close relative die, or having a mental health issue really early in a relationship can force a wedge that can’t be overcome yet. A normal wedge that all relationships deal with regularly once they’re established, but can’t deal with in the first few weeks.
The only advice that worked for me (I was raised with very few other kids my age) when I started dating in college was that the skills to make a romantic relationship were just people skills. That I should intentionally strike up conversations with anyone I don’t know. Most people have something to occupy their time. I try to find that out in the first conversation I have with someone. You can see when someone’s expression changes when the ice breaks and they shift into excitedly talking about a new personal best in a 10k run, or getting a major part in King Lear, or published their first full comic book or novella.
I had to hone my ability to talk about my hobbies. At the time I was finding gargantuan prime numbers. I had to work on how to describe it to people to make it slightly approachable.
I also figured out that a huge part of wanting to be in a relationship was family pressure. I had to be at a place where I wanted it, and not because aunts and uncles poked fun at any young single people in the family.
Hey man I know it doesn’t help in this moment but I’m in IT and everyone on my team is married except for our youngest guy who is engaged. It’s possible, but it’s hard - you have to put yourself out there and take some risks. Dating apps can be wild but they can also work, just keep trying and see what happens!
I’ve done a lot of thinking about how people use and fail at dating apps. I joke I should write a book about how to do better (and not in a gross pick up artist way)
So I’m mildly curious about your experiences, but you don’t owe me a biography. Hope you find happiness!
I mainly used Hinge and Bumble. Fully fleshed out, verified profiles on both of them, clearly describing what I was after (ie, after a serious relationship, looking for a child-free vegan partner etc). Had premium subscription on both of them too, for more filter options and chances of getting matched. I also followed the golden rule of only swiping right on someone who actually matched my interests, and someone I could see myself having a relationship with (so no swiping on Instagram models and obvious catfishers).
I did get matches, but ALL the chats went nowhere. They all start off well, we make some small talks and the chats frizzle off over time or they ghost you.
I was doing this religiously for several months, spending at least an hour or two each day, going thru all the profiles, reading all their bios, searching again with different filters in case my strict filters missed someone etc. And after months of doing this, I burnt out. I didn’t manage to land a single meetup, never mind actually having a date. It made me very depressed and my self esteem took a big blow, it made me wonder whether it was really worth wasting so much time on this, only to end up getting depressed. So I binned the whole idea of actively looking for someone, and thought I’d be best to leave it up to fate, and decided to just go back and focus on my career and hobbies instead.
It’s been over six months now since I’ve been away from the dating game and mentally I’m doing so much better. I’ve got a new job which is going well too, I’ve been hitting my goal of 10,000 steps a day and have pretty much sorted out all my diet/nutrition bits where I was lacking a bit previously, plus I’m enjoying the new Cyberpunk 2077 update on my PS5 which has finally lived up to its hype, so, life is good and I can’t really complain. I’ve accepted that not all people can have everything, so I’ve moved on. In saying that, I would be lying if I didn’t feel jealous seeing people with partners or when I see threads like these, but I guess I just have to not dwell on it, and move on with my life.
I had written so much and I clicked up vote on the comment below this and it vanished. I am so sad. Let me try again.
It sounds like you were doing a lot right! But this:
I did get matches, but ALL the chats went nowhere. They all start off well, we make some small talks and the chats frizzle off over time or they ghost you.
What happened here? How long were you chatting?
My advice (to anyone, maybe not you if you’re off the apps) is to ask people out sooner. If they matched with you and responded reasonably well to your first message, they have signalled interest. That’s most of what you need.
I usually match, write a message specific to them (never send a generic message, guys!), and then see what they say. After a handful of good exchanges I’ll usually ask them out. If you ever end on like “let’s chat again tomorrow” when you’re still interested and you haven’t asked them out, you probably fucked up
“Do you want to have a date, talk more about {X}, and see if we get along in person?” has worked well for me.
If you don’t ask them out, someone bolder will, and most people will prioritize a real person they’ve met over a blip in an app.
One of my women friends often complains about men who write and chat and dither and never ask her out.
I hope this helps someone. It does sound like your life is in a good place though.
Cheers for the reply and sorry you lost your original comment, I hate it when that happens to me!
What happened here? How long were you chatting?
Nothing really, they just never went anywhere. I would usually chat for maybe 2-3 days, and I think the longest chat I’ve had active was for a week. The problem is I’m not really good at chatting (it just feels so fake asking the same old small talk stuff, like you know, how you feel inside when put on a fake smile?), and I don’t know how to organically switch from a random small talk to asking them out.
After a handful of good exchanges I’ll usually ask them out.
Whats your criteria for this? What’s a good number of exchanges, and do you ask your dealbreaker / serious questions during this time, or just keep it all casual, like asking them about their interests etc?
I might come back and write a longer reply when I’m not on my phone. Edit: lol this got real long. Let me try to be helpful with this tiny keyboard in the meantime.
I would usually chat for maybe 2-3 days, and I think the longest chat I’ve had active was for a week
That is too long to be chatting! When I first started dating I would also talk to people over messages for a long time, and also I got no dates. Then one of my friends was like “I just ask 'em out. What are they going to do, say no?” That’d be doing you a favor because you can move on.
The problem is I’m not really good at chatting
Relatable. Most of us aren’t naturally good at it. But the good news is the bar for acceptable is pretty low, and you can get better with practice
(it just feels so fake asking the same old small talk stuff, like you know, how you feel inside when put on a fake smile?)
What sort of topics are you chatting about? In my head there’s like a rough hierarchy of quality topics
Best : something explicitly on their profile you’re interested in. You can usually assume if someone wrote “I love NK jemisen’s books” they will be happy to talk about that. Remember to try to ask open ended questions!
Okay: something implicitly on their profile you’re interested in, like if they live in a neighborhood you like, if they have a job title you can relate to.
Bad: generics like weekend or holiday plans. Think hard before using this.
Unacceptable: anything about their body. Anything solely about you. Copy-pasted messages.
Embarrassingly bad: “hey”. Do not under any circumstances send a dead end message like “hey”. You open with a hook or you don’t open.
For example, I matched with a woman whose profile said something like “tell me about cool [music] shows!”. We matched, I wrote something like “hello! There’s this amazing band Screaming Females playing Thursday. You ever listen to them? I saw the singer crowd surf while playing a solo once!”. She wrote back that that sounded amazing. We talked a bit more (the details escape me and I can’t find the original conversation now, a year later), and within the hour I asked if she wanted to meet up for a drink. She said yes. We had a great time.
Side note: probably don’t do a first date at a concert. You need to be able to talk to your date, and also bail early if it’s terrible!
and I don’t know how to organically switch from a random small talk to asking them out.
This used to give me a lot of trouble, too. In my experience you don’t really have to be very organic about it , really.
It’s like:
your initial message
their good response
your follow up
their good response
explicit check for deal breakers
your “amazing. Do you want to go out for a drink and see if we get along?”
The last two can feel a little weird, but you really need to get to an in person date if you want to have any luck.
Whats your criteria for this? What’s a good number of exchanges, and do you ask your dealbreaker / serious questions during this time, or just keep it all casual, like asking them about their interests etc?
I don’t have a firm rule but I feel like two or three quality messages are enough. If I’m getting dead end replies (where they respond but don’t ask anything) I might fish a little longer if they’re really hot or something. Try not to let the conversation roll into another day.
Side note: I highly recommend the rule of three. Don’t send three messages in a row. You can send one message. If you don’t hear anything, you can send a second. Under no circumstances should you send a third message in a row. Working backwards from that, make your second message good. Don’t blow it on “hey wyd?”.
I also have a pretty big potential deal breaker about myself. It’s listed explicitly on my profile, but a lot of people don’t read profiles. I ask before asking them out. Usually with something like “Before we get too invested, did you see the thing in my blurb about {deal breaker}? Is that something you’re comfortable with?”
Some people bail at that point. But that’s fine. If people respond positively, that’s a great time to ask them out.
But many people don’t! If they’re cool with it, I ask them out. Suggest a date and location and see what they say.
Once plans are made, I generally do not keep texting. The more you text before meeting, the more likely you are to say something that doesn’t land right. People are fickle. In person you have body language doing you a lot of favors.
I do text the day before to confirm they’re still up for it, and then when I leave the house to head to the date, but that honestly might be a bit much. I’m just really burned by being ghosted or dealing with poor communicators, I over communicate a little myself.
Unrelated tip: have some date plans ready to go. I’ve got a handful of local bars (walking distance from my home :finger guns:), a couple places in a more central location, two non alcoholic ideas
Ok I should get back to work. Hope this helped someone! Feel free to ask more.
I feel like it’s just something that takes a long time, the disparity between women to men automatically puts guys at a disadvantage. Plus there’s tons of people who are on these sites, but not actually looking for a relationship… they just want to flirt a bit and never actually meet. It can absolutely crush your soul, so being content with the rest of your life is important. It’s really easy to believe there’s something wrong with you, even though there really isn’t.
I’ve had a similar experience with online dating - chatting with people, then went on multiple dates where it became obvious they didn’t actually want a relationship (although I was quite open about the fact that I did) or they were just not a good match for me. I agree with a comment higher as well about the ‘spark’ thing as I was realising I just wasn’t feeling that with any of them. I’ve had people say before that they were just on them for validation rather than having any intent on dating.
That said, I actually deleted Hinge about a month ago as I was just kinda sick of it and one of the people I’d been on a date with prior (who I actually did have a spark for but the date was just a bit odd as we hadn’t quite ‘clicked’ with our interaction styles yet and I suck at actually flirting) wanted to catch up again. We’ve been dating exclusively for over a month now.
I’ll agree with your comment about the disparity as we joked about our online dating experiences - she’d been on some 20-30 dates and in even more conversations with guys after being on it for 4 weeks. I had been on 5 dates and 12-odd chats in 6 months and a lot of those chats just ended up going nowhere when you ask engaging questions and get either absolutely nothing or single word replies.
oh yeah fair but also i just commented that because I thought itd be funny. you’re in IT, have you considered just being a furry?? its a good social lubricant.
you guys are having relationships??
This. Reading this thread makes me sad and wonder where I went wrong in life.
Maybe I shouldn’t have chosen IT as a career. Or maybe my parents shouldn’t have sent me to an all-boys school, which made me shy and awkward around girls even in my later years. Maybe I should’ve fooled around in my college and uni days, instead of concentrating on my studies. What did all my efforts get me? What was I even working so hard for? Forget being in a relationship, I haven’t even kissed a girl yet. Sigh.
Hey, don’t be hard on yourself like that. Sometimes things happen or don’t happen, and we don’t have a clue why. Time can pass so quickly and we can lose ourselves so easily.
But that doesn’t diminish you in any way. I know what I’m talking about. I lost the best years of my life, and no one will ever understand or have some sympathy for it. People are too quickly to judge or to give weird “advices” that feel much more like a kick than anything else. Our lives are so complex and can’t be reduced to simple encouragement words.
I’d advise you to explore yourself a bit more. Perhaps you’re restraining yourself somehow, perhaps you had a too restrictive environment, perhaps you have some undiagnosed condition (that was my case), perhaps something else. Sometimes we try to live life forcing ourselves to be what others expect of us, and we will fail so miserably, but we can live as who we are, and things start to improve progressively.
I hope I didn’t confuse you even more.
Relationships take effort and luck. You have to work on yourself to be prepared, put a lot out of effort into social things to meet people and develop relationships, and then most don’t work out and you’re sad for a bit.
The luck part is a huge part of the equation. Two people are perfect on paper but the “spark” doesn’t happen. Maybe they could have a great relationship but the starting conditions weren’t right to form a relationship. Having a close relative die, or having a mental health issue really early in a relationship can force a wedge that can’t be overcome yet. A normal wedge that all relationships deal with regularly once they’re established, but can’t deal with in the first few weeks.
The only advice that worked for me (I was raised with very few other kids my age) when I started dating in college was that the skills to make a romantic relationship were just people skills. That I should intentionally strike up conversations with anyone I don’t know. Most people have something to occupy their time. I try to find that out in the first conversation I have with someone. You can see when someone’s expression changes when the ice breaks and they shift into excitedly talking about a new personal best in a 10k run, or getting a major part in King Lear, or published their first full comic book or novella.
I had to hone my ability to talk about my hobbies. At the time I was finding gargantuan prime numbers. I had to work on how to describe it to people to make it slightly approachable.
I also figured out that a huge part of wanting to be in a relationship was family pressure. I had to be at a place where I wanted it, and not because aunts and uncles poked fun at any young single people in the family.
Hey man I know it doesn’t help in this moment but I’m in IT and everyone on my team is married except for our youngest guy who is engaged. It’s possible, but it’s hard - you have to put yourself out there and take some risks. Dating apps can be wild but they can also work, just keep trying and see what happens!
What are you doing to try to improve your situation? What have you tried before?
Nothing at present. I’ve tired a few dating apps, but it went nowhere so I’ve given up.
I’ve done a lot of thinking about how people use and fail at dating apps. I joke I should write a book about how to do better (and not in a gross pick up artist way)
So I’m mildly curious about your experiences, but you don’t owe me a biography. Hope you find happiness!
I mainly used Hinge and Bumble. Fully fleshed out, verified profiles on both of them, clearly describing what I was after (ie, after a serious relationship, looking for a child-free vegan partner etc). Had premium subscription on both of them too, for more filter options and chances of getting matched. I also followed the golden rule of only swiping right on someone who actually matched my interests, and someone I could see myself having a relationship with (so no swiping on Instagram models and obvious catfishers).
I did get matches, but ALL the chats went nowhere. They all start off well, we make some small talks and the chats frizzle off over time or they ghost you.
I was doing this religiously for several months, spending at least an hour or two each day, going thru all the profiles, reading all their bios, searching again with different filters in case my strict filters missed someone etc. And after months of doing this, I burnt out. I didn’t manage to land a single meetup, never mind actually having a date. It made me very depressed and my self esteem took a big blow, it made me wonder whether it was really worth wasting so much time on this, only to end up getting depressed. So I binned the whole idea of actively looking for someone, and thought I’d be best to leave it up to fate, and decided to just go back and focus on my career and hobbies instead.
It’s been over six months now since I’ve been away from the dating game and mentally I’m doing so much better. I’ve got a new job which is going well too, I’ve been hitting my goal of 10,000 steps a day and have pretty much sorted out all my diet/nutrition bits where I was lacking a bit previously, plus I’m enjoying the new Cyberpunk 2077 update on my PS5 which has finally lived up to its hype, so, life is good and I can’t really complain. I’ve accepted that not all people can have everything, so I’ve moved on. In saying that, I would be lying if I didn’t feel jealous seeing people with partners or when I see threads like these, but I guess I just have to not dwell on it, and move on with my life.
I had written so much and I clicked up vote on the comment below this and it vanished. I am so sad. Let me try again.
It sounds like you were doing a lot right! But this:
What happened here? How long were you chatting?
My advice (to anyone, maybe not you if you’re off the apps) is to ask people out sooner. If they matched with you and responded reasonably well to your first message, they have signalled interest. That’s most of what you need.
I usually match, write a message specific to them (never send a generic message, guys!), and then see what they say. After a handful of good exchanges I’ll usually ask them out. If you ever end on like “let’s chat again tomorrow” when you’re still interested and you haven’t asked them out, you probably fucked up
“Do you want to have a date, talk more about {X}, and see if we get along in person?” has worked well for me.
If you don’t ask them out, someone bolder will, and most people will prioritize a real person they’ve met over a blip in an app.
One of my women friends often complains about men who write and chat and dither and never ask her out.
I hope this helps someone. It does sound like your life is in a good place though.
Cheers for the reply and sorry you lost your original comment, I hate it when that happens to me!
Nothing really, they just never went anywhere. I would usually chat for maybe 2-3 days, and I think the longest chat I’ve had active was for a week. The problem is I’m not really good at chatting (it just feels so fake asking the same old small talk stuff, like you know, how you feel inside when put on a fake smile?), and I don’t know how to organically switch from a random small talk to asking them out.
Whats your criteria for this? What’s a good number of exchanges, and do you ask your dealbreaker / serious questions during this time, or just keep it all casual, like asking them about their interests etc?
I might come back and write a longer reply when I’m not on my phone. Edit: lol this got real long. Let me try to be helpful with this tiny keyboard in the meantime.
That is too long to be chatting! When I first started dating I would also talk to people over messages for a long time, and also I got no dates. Then one of my friends was like “I just ask 'em out. What are they going to do, say no?” That’d be doing you a favor because you can move on.
What sort of topics are you chatting about? In my head there’s like a rough hierarchy of quality topics
Best : something explicitly on their profile you’re interested in. You can usually assume if someone wrote “I love NK jemisen’s books” they will be happy to talk about that. Remember to try to ask open ended questions!
Okay: something implicitly on their profile you’re interested in, like if they live in a neighborhood you like, if they have a job title you can relate to.
Bad: generics like weekend or holiday plans. Think hard before using this.
Unacceptable: anything about their body. Anything solely about you. Copy-pasted messages.
Embarrassingly bad: “hey”. Do not under any circumstances send a dead end message like “hey”. You open with a hook or you don’t open.
For example, I matched with a woman whose profile said something like “tell me about cool [music] shows!”. We matched, I wrote something like “hello! There’s this amazing band Screaming Females playing Thursday. You ever listen to them? I saw the singer crowd surf while playing a solo once!”. She wrote back that that sounded amazing. We talked a bit more (the details escape me and I can’t find the original conversation now, a year later), and within the hour I asked if she wanted to meet up for a drink. She said yes. We had a great time.
Side note: probably don’t do a first date at a concert. You need to be able to talk to your date, and also bail early if it’s terrible!
This used to give me a lot of trouble, too. In my experience you don’t really have to be very organic about it , really.
It’s like:
The last two can feel a little weird, but you really need to get to an in person date if you want to have any luck.
I don’t have a firm rule but I feel like two or three quality messages are enough. If I’m getting dead end replies (where they respond but don’t ask anything) I might fish a little longer if they’re really hot or something. Try not to let the conversation roll into another day.
Side note: I highly recommend the rule of three. Don’t send three messages in a row. You can send one message. If you don’t hear anything, you can send a second. Under no circumstances should you send a third message in a row. Working backwards from that, make your second message good. Don’t blow it on “hey wyd?”.
I also have a pretty big potential deal breaker about myself. It’s listed explicitly on my profile, but a lot of people don’t read profiles. I ask before asking them out. Usually with something like “Before we get too invested, did you see the thing in my blurb about {deal breaker}? Is that something you’re comfortable with?”
Some people bail at that point. But that’s fine. If people respond positively, that’s a great time to ask them out.
But many people don’t! If they’re cool with it, I ask them out. Suggest a date and location and see what they say.
Once plans are made, I generally do not keep texting. The more you text before meeting, the more likely you are to say something that doesn’t land right. People are fickle. In person you have body language doing you a lot of favors.
I do text the day before to confirm they’re still up for it, and then when I leave the house to head to the date, but that honestly might be a bit much. I’m just really burned by being ghosted or dealing with poor communicators, I over communicate a little myself.
Unrelated tip: have some date plans ready to go. I’ve got a handful of local bars (walking distance from my home :finger guns:), a couple places in a more central location, two non alcoholic ideas
Ok I should get back to work. Hope this helped someone! Feel free to ask more.
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I feel like it’s just something that takes a long time, the disparity between women to men automatically puts guys at a disadvantage. Plus there’s tons of people who are on these sites, but not actually looking for a relationship… they just want to flirt a bit and never actually meet. It can absolutely crush your soul, so being content with the rest of your life is important. It’s really easy to believe there’s something wrong with you, even though there really isn’t.
I’ve had a similar experience with online dating - chatting with people, then went on multiple dates where it became obvious they didn’t actually want a relationship (although I was quite open about the fact that I did) or they were just not a good match for me. I agree with a comment higher as well about the ‘spark’ thing as I was realising I just wasn’t feeling that with any of them. I’ve had people say before that they were just on them for validation rather than having any intent on dating.
That said, I actually deleted Hinge about a month ago as I was just kinda sick of it and one of the people I’d been on a date with prior (who I actually did have a spark for but the date was just a bit odd as we hadn’t quite ‘clicked’ with our interaction styles yet and I suck at actually flirting) wanted to catch up again. We’ve been dating exclusively for over a month now.
I’ll agree with your comment about the disparity as we joked about our online dating experiences - she’d been on some 20-30 dates and in even more conversations with guys after being on it for 4 weeks. I had been on 5 dates and 12-odd chats in 6 months and a lot of those chats just ended up going nowhere when you ask engaging questions and get either absolutely nothing or single word replies.
Glad to hear it worked out for you, that’s awesome!
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Money milking is real 🤣
None of these things are wrong. Work on your issues in the present, not the ones in the past.
I went to an all boys school too so that probably doesn’t have anything to do with it. Just gotta put yourself out there and try my man
oh yeah fair but also i just commented that because I thought itd be funny. you’re in IT, have you considered just being a furry?? its a good social lubricant.
Are you using Linux? If not, I guess I know where the problem lies /s
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It’s because they use Linux.