Thereās definitely some additional nuance (like a pronouns in bio/username situation) but this should cover the broad needs of anyone who is approaching this with good faith.
Thereās definitely some additional nuance (like a pronouns in bio/username situation) but this should cover the broad needs of anyone who is approaching this with good faith.
AND HOLY SHIT does it get toxic. for some reason thereās no will for even this basic level of nuance. currently watching an entire anti-blahaj hate crusade over a simple misunderstanding where the left and the right conclusions of the chart got conflated as though they are the same thing.
then i tried to help clarify and got called insults.
justā¦ so sad :(
I think one of the issues is that several of the people involved in that crusade were also banned from blahaj.
People tend to not disclose their conflict of interest.
Thatās a very probably true analysis :(
Relevant meme post of what brought on a lot of those bans for onlookers.
Could you please tell the context behing that post?
first three paragraphs of this history post: https://lemmy.cafe/post/12094663
Dare I ask?
Edit 3: Iāve been trying to talk to her most of the day. Itās not proving fruitful. Iām holding out hope for her but sheās just continuing to tantrum.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/37755294
Short version: elder queer
makes postreplies to a post on beehaw asking if itās actually okay to stick with they/them pronouns for everyone because OOPāw autistic brain discards gender as irrelevant information (like how you cant remember your dreams or what you had for breakfast last week), so she tends to forget peopleās pronouns. This caused OOP to accidentally misgender someone who thought she knew their pronouns, and sheās worried about hurting other peopleās feelings. OP angrily insists that they/them is how you address people you donāt know the gender of, full stop, and then goes on a rant about how kids these days are little babies etc. Then a mod saw that post, interpreted this as gatekeeping who gets to be nb, and banned her from all of blahaj.zone.To be clear, she is being an ass there throwing a big tantrum over getting banned. I think she will calm down soon. This seems like the
BTW, I also have this problem, Ive just learned to do a better job of hiding it because for some fucking reason when transphobes (and traumatized trans friends) hear me ask āI forgot Xās gender, what was it again?ā they hear āOh no, the trans-genderism and the pronouns is so confusing, they should stick with calling themselves by their peepee and vajoojay like the founding fathers intendedā and then i wake up the next day with no friends. So Iāve just learned to not ask for help and correct myself when i fuck up. It was also hard to learn that the apology has to be through your immediate actions by immediately correcting yourself and moving on; it is so easy to panic and apologize like you just ran over their cat, but dramatic apology + autistic RBF = what looks like passive aggressive sarcasm.
I get why this happens, and I canāt be mad at trans people for being traumatized by all the transphobes. After the 3rd or 4th time you find out someone you thought was your friend secretly wants to call you a slur, you start getting paranoid. And more importantly for this subject, if someone told me that our mutual friend X misgendered someone, I am immediately blocking Xās number, passing the word on to my friends, and shunning X for the rest of their life, no questions asked because thatās how transphobes should be treated.
Edit: forgot she said she is a lesbian. Changed the pronouns
Edit 2: thank you kind commenter for pointing out that OP was one of the commenters on the beehaw post, not the poster. Read the comments, she came across as an old yelling about how kids these days are too soft. Edited my summary to reflect this.
Ah yeah. I banned her. Not because she defaults to they/them, but because she was victim blaming queer folk as the cause of their own oppression, and using a lot of thinly veiled insults against gender diverse folk
And for what itās worth, Iām almost certainly a similar age to her
Yeah, the more I try to talk with her, the more obvious it is that sheās not willing to stop projecting. I hope she sleeps on this and realizes sheās being closeminded.
Arenāt you afraid of just creating an echo chamber where no criticism is possible at all?
You can disagree with their idea of what the effect is of people being (perceived as) overly sensitive to pronouns, but isnāt it a topic that should be discussed in the queer space, and shouldnāt there be room for such points of view?
If theyād be personally attacking people, i can get giving them a temp ban a few times and see if they learn how to behave, but perma banning fellow queers from your queer discussion space because their opinions donāt match yours really doesnāt sound like a good basis for a heatlhy space to talk about queer issues.
And great that youāre similar in age survived being young and queer better, does that invalidate their experience?
In a world where we are being erased, attacked, harassed and turned in to political footballs, where every major social media platform has explicitly green lit attacks and harassment on us, concerns over āecho chambersā arenāt even on my list.
Bigotry is bigotry. It has no place here. The user in question wasnāt banned for defaulting to they/them. She was banned because she was actively blaming the victims of transphobia for the transphobia they received. She isnāt gender diverse herself, she is a cis woman who decided that the people asking for their pronouns to be respected are the real cause of the bigotry we face.
On top of that, she also threw a lot of comments that made it clear what she really things of gender diverse folk. ā attention seeking bratsā. ā Younger queers need faux outrage to feel importantā, ā if some chud gets all hissy about their pronounsā. ā As a cis lesbian whoās gender nonconforming, Iāve spent years putting up with their pronoun based faux āoppressionā temper tantrums out of an effort to be āacceptingā only to watch larger society completely flip on usā
tl;dr - a cis woman victim blaming gender diverse folk and gatekeeping them at the same time got banned.
No, age doesnāt invalidate alternative perspectives. That was the very point I was making. The user in question was using her age as an āelder queerā to invalidate the younger queer folk. She clearly included me in the āyoung queerā category in some of her coments. I pointed out my age to highlight that being an āelder queerā that has been exposed to awful shit isnāt an excuse to invalidate folks.
They way i read it their point, it was about people being aggressive in having their pronouns being respected, even in situations where thereās clearly no malice or when their pronouns just arenāt known. I have no clue if thatās actually happening, but if it is, i can imagine thatās not very benificial to the cause.
But yeah, they do seem to generalize too much, and then blame everything on the next generation. why donāt you just ban them for a week, and send them a message that while there might be something to their point, generalizing the heck out of it and blaiming the new generation for everything isnāt the solution either, and not the best way to approach this discussion.
Maybe a bit of empathy an genuine feedback can make them a good faith contributor that has similar experiences in their life?
Yes, thatās what sheās angry about, but itās not why she was banned.
Because then she just comes back and slips under the radar, and I have no way of knowing if anything is changed, unless I follow up on it. If she wants to access the instance, she can approach me and we can talk about what it will take. Itās permanent in the sense that it wonāt automatically expire, not in the sense that it canāt be removed.
You are more than welcome to make that attempt and have that discussion, however, in my experience, mods and admins reaching out after bans to try and have these conversations donāt change opinions, they just further inflame the sense of injustice the person is feeling.
I donāt have the resources or will to try and manually talk around every person who throws around bigotry for what they believe are genuine reasons, nor to expose the rest of the community to gatekeeping whilst they āwork through itā. And honestly, most folk who feel as strongly as she does arenāt open to being talked around in any case.
Important detail: the person who posted that question isnāt the one who got banned, it was one of the commenters
Ah, missed that.
Edit: they just replied to my comment on their post. Theyāre still ranting about the baby gays being soft. Smh
see my comment history if you are truly interested. fair warning: itās fucken bad.
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com I guess