Hot take: corporatism and infotainment. You control money and information, you control the world.
Capitalism
Nope education is the downfall. Teach critical thinking well and you won’t have such a malleable idiotic population that buys into either of those.
That’s maybe a part, but not the whole story.
Your (and your parents’, and your peers’) real and perceived economic circumstances and opportunities have a lot to do with what you’ll value and prioritize as an adult - how invested and loyal you’ll be in society. Every poor person we generate due to greedy decisions has a very high likelihood of being a destructive force back to us.
Now consider how many poor people were generated by black slavery, segregation, and explicit racism in America, and how, in a society, we all just swim around in the same trauma soup, deflecting pain towards one another.
Imo greed is an lack of education. As education is ideally schooling +life experience. Part of that critical thinking section needs to be taught by experience and society in the us at least didn’t give anyone enough time to see the world before deciding what to do, how to live and what kind of person you want to be.
as an adult
That’s an interesting way to frame things.
Now consider how many poor people were generated by black slavery, segregation, and explicit racism in America, and how, in a society, we all just swim around in the same trauma soup, deflecting pain towards one another.
That’s a nice thought 😳
Education was destroyed by the same people who forced corporate news down our throats.
Correct, but one had to go before the other.
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Public education wasn’t necessarily “taken over”. It was only ever “allowed” by the rich because they needed trained people to count their fucking money (oversimplifying. Sort of).
Teachers push actual critical thinking in their classrooms and the oligarchs hate that, which is why they try to crush teachers at every turn.
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Pitchshifter warned us.
The 90s industrial/nu metal band?
Industrial then switched genres to Industrial Punk, but yeah.
Neat. Just was not at all expecting to see Pitchshifter in this discussion. (sorry I called them nu metal, felt strange to me too)
Yeah, I guess they did warn us. I didn’t really grasp the lyrics when I was younger. Even RATM was lost on me until I hit my 30s…
Man I used to have the dopest pitchshifter wife beater when I was 18
I’m safe in the knowledge that we’ll all be saved.
This is the coldest take on Lemmy. Not that it’s wrong, though.
The question “Where did we go wrong?” being asked on 4chan in /b/ is funny to me.
Cue John Travolta looking around gif
This was my feeling as well. Hey Anon, go look in the fuckin’ mirror if you want to know where we went wrong.
Don’t vote Conservative
Next year will mark my 16th year voting for democrats, all they do is kick the can and move the line. While I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying don’t vote conservative, I do think it’s a bit like saying “CLOSE YOUR WINDOWS” when a tornado is coming. We’re screwed regardless of who we vote for, the only thing that changes is the rate at which we’re screwed; that is why Anon is sick of life.
Democrats are also conservatives. If you allow the oligarchs and aristocrats to choose who represents you then they will always choose candidates who rule in their interest. You can’t change this system by playing within the ruleset you’re given. Democratic power can only ever be wielded by unions of workers and communes of citizens. Those organizations combine and concentrate the power of regular people and can effectively wield this against the ruling class.
It’s not even a matter of “Democrat vs Republican” - do you know what they all have in common? They’re all part of the same ruling class you mentioned, and they’re all also helping the corporate owners of America push their agendas.
Like… it’s pretty damn blatant who the GOP are rooting for when you consider what rich asshats like Elongated Muskrat want, and then look at some of the policies they passed and go “oh shit.”
The FPTP voting system means everyone is held hostage voting for the party they hate the least. If you vote for a third party you just make it more likely the party you hate most will win because the vote is split.
Obviously things still wouldn’t be perfect with a proportional voting system but I think it would take some power away from capitalist oligarchs because we will be able to vote for a party we like without just making the fascists more likely to win. The issue is the only two parties you can realistically vote for are highly incentivised to not change the voting system because they will lose a lot of the power they have.
Or how about everyone who wants to vote 3rd party, votes 3rd party?
I know it’s a little different because my country has proportional voting system, but the first two elections the party I vote for was below the limit to be in a parliament. I still voted for them as did others and now it’s one of the stronger parties.
If everyone who doesn’t like both the parties starts voting 3rd party, you have a chance.
I made the mistake of voting 3rd party in 2016. Massive fucking mistake.
That’s the good 'ol spoiler effect in action lol
Think about it on the constituency level, say you have a constituency with 100,000 people. One year, 60k people vote for party A and 40k for party B so party A wins. But during during the years before the next election people become disenfranchised with party A so they start voting for party C who they like more. In the following election, party A gets 30k votes, party B gets 40k votes again and party C gets 30k votes. Because FPTP is a “winner takes all” system, party B is now takes that constituency which is the the party A and C voters dislike most, even though party B got less votes than those other two. This is called the spoiler effect. When this is happening all over a country, sure maybe some constituencies will flip but for each that does like 30 will have the vote split leading to a probable landslide victory for party B.
Sure in your country, your vote was also “wasted” if your party of choice never entered parliament I suppose (although if you get to choose multiple parties in order of preference where it defaults to your second if the first doesn’t get enough votes then it isn’t wasted) but the ecosystem will be much more favourable to new parties growing because the way the voting system works makes it actually possible for them to do so. So the vote isn’t wasted like it is in FPTP.
CGP Grey has some great videos about FPTP on his channel if you’re interested in a better explanation that I can provide.
The spoiler effect was very evident when Ross Perot ran during the 1992 presidential election which put Clinton in office.
Well yes, that and the epic sax skills effect haha.
The Dems can’t do anything without a majority. Give them a true majority where Sinema and Man Chin can’t hold things up. Then stand the fuck back.
Give the Democrats a 4 person majority then 5 conservative Democrats will Hum and Haw about fiscal responsibility to their voters.
It is really up to hard progressives to get in and vote as a block to keep the Dems from passing watered down policy by forcing them to earn the blocks vote with real policies the public already want.
Medicare for all, free college, 20 dollar minimum wage and more all all supported by way more than 50 percent of the country.
The Dems want to lose these fights for their donors they need to be forced to do their job against their donors wishes.
Well, at least you’ve got a heads-up and some choice on how fast you get screwed.
We just got a guy we didnt choose who just suddenly and royally f🇷🇺ks everyone over every few years or so
America is the world.
Lots of places have conservatives for which one should not vote
Can say the same for progressives! They progressed us so far, we ended up going backwards!
Ohh that would almost be clever if it weren’t conservatives dragging the world through their unga bunga bullshit.
We started with hating the gays, then we accepted gays, now we hate straights. See, backwards. “Conservitves”, have been progressing in their own direction, which is not actually conservative but a branch of liberalism that focuses on things like anti abortion and more government control over that as well as border control and anti lgbt. One side of liberalism wants more government control over social things, the other wants government control over economic and state things. By things I mean…whatever those retards are bickering about ATM I’m not sure, thats just my own conclusion.
No one cares about straight people enough to hate us. Spare me your fox news talking points about why we’re actually the most persecuted group in the universe. It’s old hat bullshit.
now we hate straights.
who the fuck is we? why do you hate the straights? explain how this is progressive’s fault that you ‘hate the straights’
now we hate the straights
No idea who hates straight people, but that line alone is telling me you need to touch grass.
by things I mean… whatever those retards are bickering about ATM I’m not sure
No, no, I’m fairly certain you do. Please elaborate on what things you’re talking about in this context.
Some people think of politics as a circle instead of a spectrum, if that’s what you mean.
From what I can tell gay people are getting a lot of hate sent their way lately. Didn’t someone just get shot and killed for having a pride flag.
Yes, an old granny who ran an art gallery.
Progressive to me means fair wages, medicare for all, tackling climate change, defending civil rights, protecting against authoritarianism, tackling the wage gap, making government work for all people, etc.
Conservative means insurrection, praising authoritarianism, banning books, attacking public education, idolizing the ultra wealthy, culture wars, gerrymandering, preventing fair elections, etc.
I know what I prefer.
Can you? Examples, please.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the system we’ve built to buy and sell products, owning, trading and hoarding capital? No, that can’t be it…
Eat the rich
Too fatty. Better to use them for biofuel.
Converting them to fuel takes too long, just make a bonfire.
Toss another rich on the barbie.
Hate your fellow man not the guys unconsentually gang banging your chocolate starfish
Somewhere around 20 years ago/b/ was one of the first aggressively “us vs them” communities I was ever exposed to, and it only got worse from there.
You’re crazy, /b/ wasn’t around 20 years ago… I mean, it only recently started in the early ‘00s!
…oh no
Everything is about money, not about having an actual human experience.
Human experience is still there, everywhere. You have to make the effort to get out of your burrow and do things outside with physical people.
It’s hard to make an effort when all your energy goes into survival. Wasn’t the point of “civilization” to not have to worry about all of that?
Yes it should, but modernity also made us less reliant on the group and I think it made use more introvert and more social risk averse. This is something that can be worked on with reasonable cost.
Alienation is a product of Capitalism, not ‘modernity.’
Human experience has been almost entirely privatized. If you’re poor, you’re denied most of it.
What do you mean by that? Go find a sport/hobby. Clubs aren’t expensive at all.
Human experience isn’t just hanging out with other people. It includes going to other places, experiencing what the world has to offer. You can’t do much of that, if any, when you’re living paycheck to paycheck like most people.
In social countries, they give you money for hobbies if you have low salaries.
Holy shit. One more little reason to hope the civil war comes quickly so I can flee as a refugee to a semi-civilized country.
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Are non-profit associations rare in your place? They are very present around me, all my hobbies are covered.
Where do I go? I have no idea what to do
Try to find an association near your place, sports, arts, gardening, nature exploration, table top games, whatever you like.
As a default, a spouse and kids will rope you into decades of regular social interaction.
Like we can afford burrows.
Your local gardening association should have shovels.
I think this varies from place to place. In some places, I’ve definitely felt like going out and interacting with physical people was too dangerous, since the culture was along the lines of “everyone for themselves” and “don’t trust anyone”. That being said, I’ve also lived in places where the people around me were extremely friendly, so for many people that opportunity still does exist.
For the people who feel like going out and interacting with strangers is dangerous, I think it might help to go to specific places where the kinds of people you want to meet would also go to (and the kinds of people you want to avoid wouldn’t go to), although that can be hard to find.
Welcome to being poor … I mean poor poor … not the kind of poor where you can’t afford a Lamborghini … the kind of poor where you no longer have any luxuries like being able to go to the movies.
Where life is a constant hassle and struggle to survive. And where you constantly have to fight to stay above water. A kind of life where someone is constantly either trying to screw you, is screwing you or has screwed you. A kind of life where you no longer trust the people you see, the people you meet, or the people you live with. A kind of life where you know from the time you are born that everything and everyone will be hard.
I grew up like that and it became a normal part of life.
I learned to make a bit of money and survive and I’ve done good but not great … good enough to travel the world. It gave me the insight that the majority of the world is poor … I thought that before but after traveling, I realized just how true that really is.
The world we’re complaining about now is the world that most of the world already knows.
Welcome to being poor and hopeless.
I think this is less about being poor or struggling to survive, more about the struggle to find meaning in modern life.
I’m doing well in life. Could certainly be doing better (who couldn’t), but my bills are paid, and there’s food on my table. I don’t worry about these things, and I don’t struggle. But there have certainly been times when I’ve felt the sentiment of the OP. When your needs are met and you feel a sort of emptiness, trying to fill the boredom with the next best dopamine hit. I almost feel like I’m just floating through life, not yearning for, yet waiting for the day it all ends.
10.2% of US households aren’t food secure in the richest country on the planet with limitless food accessibility. I’m pretty sure it is about being poor and struggling to survive.
I don’t disagree with food insecurity being a major issue in the US, I just don’t get the vibe that that’s the topic of the OP.
I once described this to someone as:
You know you’re poor when you realize how bad powdered milk is compared to real milk. You know you’re really, really hungry when powdered milk tastes good.
Where did we go wrong? We stopped killing fascists. Appeasement never works when one party has no interest in concession.
BINGO.
The reconstruction of the south shouldn’t have ended until 1960, giving near a hundred years to set things right. Instead chickenshit halfhearts let the south return to political power and return to treating POC like slaves. Then they let their grandchildren build fucking monuments and statues to slavemongers.
I wonder if US insistance on the Nuremberg Trials was a result of seeing the results of failing to hold their own fascists adequately accountable after the civil war.
from what I’ve read, not really. it was so hard to get many held and charged in the first place, the trials were very much a race against time to see how many the could convict before sentiment in germany turned.
The nazis did base a lot of their hateful shit on crimes the state and other racists perpetrated against americans tho. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler
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I wasn’t aware that countries in South America ever rebelled against the US constitution, insisted on the enslavement of their fellow citizens and then lost a war about that issue, requiring their slaveocracies that we burned to the ground to be reconstructed…
Oh my god. Do you people ever stop.
If only you could make a list of all the fascists and go door to door and drag them out into the street and execute them.
Then everything would be OK!
Of course, the big question with the line “I’m tired of being told to hate my fellow man” is whether they’re referring to the constant fearmongering being pushed by conservative news and politicians against everyone who isn’t in their in-group.
Or are they referring to non-conservatives calling out the bigotry being pushed by conservatives and doing that calling out is “pushing hatred on your fellow man” in this person’s eyes?
Since a lot of 4chan is the latter while actively being a part of the former.
I hate you, my fellow man.
Whatever the content of your post I’d recommend taking a break from politics for a while. Take care of yourself fellow man.
Oh my God shut up
No.
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Oh new account made 5 minutes ago, please do tell what the “fearmongering” is on the left. Climate change? Needing to actually do the minimal effort to prevent Covid spread?
What are you on about? It’s 24 days old.
Their account says “Joined 7 minutes ago” for me and the above is their only comment.
That’s… strange. I’m on Voyager and it says 24 days when I check their profile. I think you might be looking at the age of the comment instead of the account.
I also see that their account is 3 weeks old
And then there’s the idiots who try to use this reasoning to glorify a nonexistent nostalgia based version of “the good old times” when really capitalism is the problem
I’ve found that disconnecting helps. Leave your phone at home and go out. Chat with the guy you see every day at the grocery store. Go play chess or pétanque in the park with a friend. You don’t have to do this too often, and you’ll feel less like a product yourself.
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Especially the elderly in my experience. The generation that used to tell us not to believe everything we see on the internet is now glued to Facebook.
Addiction is a lot easier when you make the surroundings more hellish and thus the substance more palatable
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My parents use Wechat
Dear Faust. I’m not sure what worse.
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I don’t use any of those, but if you are not in China and will never visit it, then Wechat maybe fine for you. Build your own threat model.
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Is this supposed to be a “the world has turned into shit” take, even though it’s been like this for ages (way before the 4chan poster, or anyone alive for that matter, was born)?
Yeah, this is a common fascist recruitment tactic. “The world has gone to shit, things were better before.”
This is the call to return to the golden past, a perfect time before “they” took it away from “us.” In reality, as you point out, that golden past never existed. However, once people have it framed in their minds that their chance at utopia was “taken” from them, there’s almost nothing they don’t feel justified in doing to take it back.
Well, there was a time when people could afford housing. That’s gone now. The past definitely had some great things that have been taken away from us.
That was a very limited boon made possible off of the backs of the cumulative dead of several modern wars. Prior to that, the notion of “home ownership” wasn’t even a thing for the most part.
The median rent price in the US has not gone down in 80 years.
Then we must start WW3 then
There was also a time where we killed someone who disagreed with us instead of being sad about it on the Internet too.
It was leaving the trees that did it, really.
Nah we should have stayed in the water.
Personally, I blame the amoeba that decided he wanted to have more cells than everyone else. All of human greed stemps from that selfish bugger.
I’ve gone through a lot of crap to learn and really believe that happiness and contentment can only come from within. The outside world has a lot to offer, but it will never give you that.
Unfortunately the outside world and circumstances CAN make it pretty damn difficult or impossible.
It’s a cliche to think of a monk or philosopher saying stuff like “if you want to be happy, be happy,” but that’s a lot of how I I’ve come to see it. And obviously it’s not that simple, we are pretty damn complicated, but that’s the spirit behind it.
Ignorance is bliss. It’s also the problem.
