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this is like second or third worst kept secret in the middle east
now you have me wondering what is the first
that israel has nukes
Haha that’s just a textile factory haha
They’re making glass, duh.
uranium glass, that is, maybe even enriched uranium glass, one might say, and some others might say enriched uranium glass without the glass
Are they gonna make a vase or what
Well, preparing to make glass.
I would have called it a glass factory. Means I can snicker every time I tell someone.
Those back-alley ‘marriages’ to 13-year-old “virgins” aren’t going to last.
Religion is just there to keep the masses down
Organized Religion is just cancer at this point
Right, absolutely, that’s the take away. Anyhoo, so somebody has hidden hundreds of small but powerful bombs in electronic devices on people’s bodies in at least 1 country. There’s no way to detect them yet. Lebanon is in a panic- civilian, military, Hezbollah, politicians. What are all they gonna do, stop hooking up with other men on dating apps?
some reports say explosions also happened in syria but that’s just rumors for now
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Not limited to the middle east.
That’s more of a philosophical stance than any kind of secret.
That Israel is a terrorist state at this point.
Why would a diplomat have a direct line of communication with a powerful military force in the region? That seems like a pretty straightforward question with an obvious answer lol.
shhhhhh it’s conspiracy theory time…
It’s not a conspiracy theory that Iran and Hezbollah are allies.
But that cannot be why. My buddy says the ambassador had a good friend, an old roommate, who joined Hezbollah and that’s how they keep in touch.
Yeah, we sure showed that 10 year old!
Damn the Iranian ambassador sure was young
Don’t forget all those Hamas nurses and doctors. Totally not indiscriminate terrorism against civilians. Israel never does that!
Hezbollah*
I know it was probably an innocent mistake but people have been mixing these two up a lot recently
Enjoy losing the electronics handheld market to the Chinese as everyone gets paranoid about Western smartphones. Will you still be laughing when this hack inevitably leaks and is used to harm you or your family. I’m a computer hacker and it’s looking more and more like these were done by hacking the devices and detonating the battery. But hey, at least you got to do a completely militarily impotent terrorism against a group fighting a genocide.
The leading theory is a supply chain attack and that explosives were planted but you would know that if you could read, mr hacker
No that’s not the leading theory outside the west. Regardless even if explosives were planted do you think that is going to make consumers feel better about buying western electronics after seeing how their intelligence agencies flagrantly break international laws. We have rules of war for a reason and you chuck fucks are about to find out why first hand when your tech sector takes a hit.
No that’s not the leading theory outside the west.
Completely irrelevant as reality doesn’t care where your fallacious claims are sourced from.
Ahhh yes China, which is famous for its respect of human rights, will take over because consumer sentiment will shift. Very obvious.
and you chuck fucks
Full mask off huh, so which is your preferred flavour of dictators boot?
I’m really, really hoping a lot of folks see that comment. Online communities are rife with intelligence agents actively trying to sway online discourse.
There’s a term in intelligence work for people who fight or support a cause they don’t fully understand: useful idiots. Anyone reading this, take a hard look at the facts of any situation. Do everything you can to cut down to the actual truth wherever possible. Make up your own mind. Don’t be a useful idiot.
How is calling you a chuckle fuck a “mask slipping” moment. How much of a marshmallow are you. Anyway yeah China does have a bad human rights record but the US has far and away the most prisoners of anyone in the world which they use as chattel slaves all while telling everyone their citizens have the most rights and freedoms haha.
when your tech sector takes a hit.
It was merely the start of the mask slipping, you have effectively admitted you aren’t from the West.
So I ask again, what is your favourite flavour of dictators boot?
You big mad because your lies don’t land here like in hexbear or .ml.
The mask refers to your “I’m cool calm and collected” false-peraona you’re struggling to maintain.
Any other questions?
All credible reporting I’ve seen is relatively certain that it was a small amount of military grade explosives.
If you have the device in front of you, and are prepping it for your secret operation, that also seems like a much more straightforward solution than trying to manipulate a lithium ion battery in a way that both allows it to work normally for years, but then explode violently enough to kill someone holding it.
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Okay boomer. Computer security isn’t some underground scene anymore. It’s a huge industry. Saying your a computer hacker is like calling yourself an accountant now. So unbelievable!
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Wrong person 🤗.
And i agree x1000 😂😂
I’m a computer hacker
🤨
it’s looking more and more like these were done by hacking the devices and detonating the battery.
🤨🤨🤨🤨
I’m a computer hacker
Careful. I heard about this guy on the news. Apparently he’s a famous hacker, goes by the name Four Chan.
Oh shit I think we finally found Lim Fao!
Very cute but there are reports of people analyzing the pagers and not finding any evidence of explosives. This is a developing story so maybe this will come to not but your incredulity doesn’t change these facts in the ground.
And if you were even a little familiar with lithium battery fires you’d know such reports don’t match up with the reports of exploding pagers killing people. So which is it?
We’ve had numerous cases of phones catching on fire in people’s pockets and resulting in horrible burns throughout the years, but how many of these have killed people? A lithium battery is an incendiary device under the right circumstances, not an explosive one. And you need a bigger battery than one in a pager to cause enough damage in a short enough timeframe to kill a person before they can save themselves.
Not to mention that it’s not a simple matter to make a lithium battery catch on fire remotely. What are they gonna do, try to draw more current than the battery can provide? That’s not going to make a battery catch on fire.
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Without compromised hardware even igniting a battery is pretty implausible (unless the phone was on charge, and obviously these weren’t) as you’d need to basically short it out and this would be hard even with full bare metal access.
Pagers are famously hard to hack as well since all they do is display strings. And they aren’t on the public net, they don’t even have IP addresses as they communicate hub and spoke with a big slow RF transceiver.
Much more likely triggered by a message or long time fuse.
Reports of batteries in the past exploding were unintentional. So if one were purposely causing the batteries to explode then it’s logical that you could make it a lot more potent.
The idea that it was a hack is more prevalent outside the west. No doubt because western intelligence is trying to stop the story of any electronic made by them being a potential bomb under their control.
Link the reports or GTFO
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depending on particular noises made by their favourite rumor mill, they might have heard that pagers contained 0, 1, 3, less than 20, or 30 to 60g of explosives. these might have been in battery or in extra (fake) element. nobody knows shit as of now
taiwanese manufacturer denies involvement and directs to a hungarian subsidiary, but that hungarian subsidiary is only nameplate on a residential address. their pagers contain different chips and are overall different model compared to what taiwanese make and sell. it might be very well that israelis didn’t have to intercept shipping of pagers, because they made them and routed through a few cutouts, one in hungary, another in bulgaria. israelis have a policy of not telling anything and i haven’t seen anywhere internals of the alleged pagers. it will take some time until anything will be known with any certainty
The command might have been a hack but the physicality is just not something normal batteries are capable of producing.
What are you on about
Maybe an Iranian LLM spreading “anti-Western” propaganda.
Nah, LLMs usually have better grammar than that. My money’s on either intern or truly delusional ordinary Lemming
Iran doesn’t need to hire interns for Lemmy when they have such a plentiful supply of delusional lemmings
Will you still be laughing when this hack inevitably leaks and is used to harm you or your family
My family isn’t a part of any international crime syndicates. Feelin’ pretty fuckin’ safe despite your best efforts.
Oh right! I keep forgetting that Israel is “the west” and Palestine is not despite being geographically on top of each other. Someday I’m gonna have to figure out where exactly this “west” is so I know not to go there.
You are a delusional Zionist if you think Israel is anything but a US proxy.
Alrighty that’s enough brainrot for one day
I’d be surprised if he didn’t.
Did he?
Apparently he lost an eye and the other is damaged.
Well, now he looks just like Salman Rushdie, sounds fair…sort of.
It was on discount on Jihad R Us.
But seriously, doubt the relation can be considered much of a secret.
What is a “Hezbollah pager”
Pagers were precursors to cell phones, there’s a little screen and it buzzes but the primary purpose is just to tell you to call someone.
Hezbollah is a political party / paramilitary group in Lebanon, aligned with Iran against Israel. And Lebanon shares a border with Israel so a famously fraught relationship there and it has only gotten worse since October. They use pagers because the Israeli intelligence agency is notoriously good and they would likely hack any cell phone.
Speaking of which, Israeli intelligence planted bombs in pagers sold to Hezbollah by a 3rd party over the last 2 years, and recently detonated the bombs, killing or wounding many members of Hezbollah. Also an Iranian ambassador.
Also killing 2 children and wounding many more… You know, the thing that tends to happen when you randomly set off bombs all over the place in between civilians and families.
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Why does anyone have pagers anymore?
Because the terror state next door can target you if you have a cell phone.
But also they can target you if you have a pager too… Clearly.
Not anymore. The first step from now on will be to verify they haven’t rigged your pager.
You can ask “him” but you’d have to repeat the question to each of his ears (which are several meters apart).
not just crunchy, burnt.
Communication? Lebanon has a right to defend itself. It’s like questioning why Biden has a line to the Israel Prime Minister.
Hezbollah is a right wing religious militia, not the government of Lebanon
they’re not the government but they are a political party with 15 seats in the parliament.
And most political parties don’t sit on a stash of rockets and other military weapons.
Most political parties aren’t born out of resistance to Israeli Settler Colonialism
Irrelevant. Either they’re a political party or an armed militia.
Things are not that simple. Not all of Hezbollah are militants, there are many social workers and politicians
Hezbollah organizes an extensive social development program and runs hospitals, news services, educational facilities, and encouragement of Nikah mut‘ah. Some of its established institutions are: Emdad committee for Islamic Charity, Hezbollah Central Press Office, Al Jarha Association, and Jihad Al Binaa Developmental Association. Jihad Al Binna’s Reconstruction Campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon. Hezbollah has set up a Martyr’s Institute (Al-Shahid Social Association), which guarantees to provide living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle.
Hezbollah holds 14 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon and is a member of the Resistance and Development Bloc. According to Daniel L. Byman, it is “the most powerful single political movement in Lebanon.” Hezbollah, along with the Amal Movement, represents most of Lebanese Shi’a.
If the existence of good cops does not disprove that all cops are bastards, since policing as a concept is a corrupt institution and if they were really good cops, they would quit, how can we not say the same about social workers who align themselves with a terrorist organization?
Actually, it’s not irrelevant and they’re both!
There are more of them that do than there are that don’t. A militia wing is very common outside the western world.
Really? What happens if they get a plurality or even a majority, would there be a significant risk of a coup?
Generally speaking, you don’t want to mix your militias and political parties.
In some places yes. In others they’re already more concerned with an ongoing conflict. There are some that just organize their military that way and wouldn’t think of it. Heck that’s the original way of organizing a military.
They are like the minutemen, but have worse PR.
Haha no. Take some time and read up maybe? All the info is available. Heck, maybe hop on a call and talk to some people in Lebanon? Anything. Just stop repeating nonsense.
All the info is available.
But it ISN’T. The US mainstream media constantly lies and the US pushes propaganda all around the world. We’ve been fed disinformation for decades not just since Trump. So I can’t just read up on them without a deep dive in trying to first find neutral sources and read and then evaluate them. If you just read the standard version about them your perception is going to be warped. Like I said, they have bad PR, which really means prevailing propaganda brands them as evil.
I don’t like their religious views either but fundamentally they are guys in a militia fighting against foreign invaders and threats to their country.
fundamentally they are guys in a militia fighting against foreign invaders and threats to their country
Why do you think this?
Probably because Hezbollah maintains that Israel is still occupying Lebanon.
And they’re right about that.
Which territory specifically?
Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
Almost makes you think the US supports continued Israeli apartheid.
You’re asking why the US formed an ally 75 years ago with the only stable democracy in the middle east and has a continued interest in maintaining stability in the region?
Of course not, you can only operate in sound bytes, buzzwords and catchphrases.
“only stable democracy” haha that old chestnut, you are deluded if you are ignoring the number of actual democracies in the ME that USA has helped topple or marginalised.
Haha let’s talk about 75 years of ME geopolitics using buzzwords and catchphrases. Haha.
haha let’s use the only parroted phrase you know again and again haha
If someone starts a conversation in buzzwords and catchphrases I will respond in kind. You don’t like it? Feel free to start another thread that doesn’t use catchphrase as the foundation and starting point for a conversation on me politics.
You guys want to have your cake and eat it. Pick one. Have a nuanced discussion about me politics or throw memes around. Don’t shit yourself because you don’t like what you see in the mirror.
It’s me. We can smear our feces together.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
I do mind telling you because I know I won’t get an informed discussion out of this thread. You want to talk ME politics? Start a new thread with specifics and let’s go over it. I’m not expending energy replying to buzz phrases with detailed responses. I’ve played this game and it sucks spending time and energy discussing something only to get back.
“lmao. Genocide Joe amirite?”
People use lazy catchphrases to describe me politics: I respond with more lazy catchphrases.
So you can’t then, got it.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
You’re asking a rhetorical question in the hopes of getting a gotcha. Because, again, all you guys do is swim in catchphrases and vibes. Your primary goal here is not to deepen any kind of understanding. If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You’d open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
No one is obligated to give you an essay on the last 75 years of ME geopolitics if all you do is start is with catchphrases and gotchas.
You want a nuanced discussion that delves into the specifics of the geopolitics of the region? Start a thread that’s not just diluted meaningless sentences, such as this nugget:
Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
It’s hopeless, because you guys will bounce back and forth between one catchphrase or buzz sentence without opening a book, or a wikipedia page, or an article, or anything. And you want us to come here and write essays to explain or refute these meaningless sentiments. It’s all vibes. You start threads with vibes, you get vibes.
To be clear, that wasnt me you just responded to, but I was the one who asked you the questions. You seem to be making a lot of bad faith assumptions about my intent with those questions.
You’re asking a rhetorical question in the hopes of getting a gotcha.
Well, it is rhetorically framed, but I was trying to see if you and I are both working with frameworks built on reality.
Your primary goal here is not to deepen any kind of understanding.
Again, ouch. The tone of the questions may have come across that way, but my intent is never to “gotcha”… You’ll just have to take my word for it obviously.
If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You’d open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
This is a forum on internet, not debate club. Like I said above, I’m sorry if my questions came across as being bad faith, but I’m not obligated to serve you a rhetorically perfect and fallacy-free set of questions, just as you are not obligated to engage with my questions if you feel they’re trying to uh… “Gotcha”
If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You’d open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
I’m not totally sure how I’m responding with catch phrases. Honestly, if nothing else I’d love for you to clarify this
You want a nuanced discussion that delves into the specifics of the geopolitics of the region? Start a thread that’s not just diluted meaningless sentences, such as this nugget:
Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
I’m sorry, I’m not being intentionally obtuse, but I can’t tell if you’re using the above as an example of a “diluted meaningless sentence” or whether it’s meant to be a good question.
Ultimately, I don’t feel I was acting in bad faith considering I was trying to evaluate your framework. If you feel it was done poorly, that’s okay, you dont need to respond.
Also:
Who are “you guys”?
Whilst the first part of your point is correct IMHO, for the rest Israel has been the very opposite of a force for stability in the region and the non-conditionality of the US’ help has emboldened successive Israeli governments to behave worse and worse thus making the region less stable (one of their main concerns seems to be to stop nations around them from having stable democratic governments) rather than more.
I would say that ACAB and a bunch of very rich Americans with Fascist tendencies who happen to be Jewish and love the ethno-Fascism which is Zionism having bought American Politics (basically doing what Russia wanted to do and, unlike Russia, actually succeeding) is a far better explanation for continued American support of Israel, a theory that much better explains the unconditionality of the American support for Israel than the idea that it’s because of wanting stability in the Middle East.
Absolutelly, American support makes geostrategical sense up to a point. It’s just that we’re well beyond that point and the American support in its current form (weapon shipments, blocking UN resolutions condemning the genocide) doesn’t make sense for geostrategical reasons (both in terms of stability in the Middle East and because it also damages the perception of America all over the World), so it must be something else driving it.
Apart with all the buzzwords; Current US politics for Israel is making US look bad on an international stage. There’s no point in behaving that way.
Pagers are one directional, and cant be traced.
To view a different way, why do they have a pager, rather than just calling an embassy, “state department” or cell phone?
If they have nothing to hide, why don’t they let themselves be killed?
That’s a very weak arguement - you’re communicating with the embassy and ambassador of a recognized country.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
Just because it’s been ingrained into you that arabs are bad and they are all “shithole countries” or hezbollah is evil, doesn’t mean that others share that view. Ask yourself: Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
And no that doesn’t mean I agree with either of those groups. I just realize that framing everything as a fight of good vs evil like it’s some fantasy movie where you can just slay the mindless orcs. These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression. Do you expect them to just lie down? Solutions are complicated and don’t involve just killing everyone who opposes you.
So of course Iran would have communication channels with Hezbollah or even support them.
The problem isn’t that my argument is weak, it’s that I have to make it in the first place. It’s fucking obvious except to the severely brainwashed, and then there is little point of making it instead of mocking them.
Is it simply impossible for you to imagine that other peoples have different opinions and viewpoints on things?
There are an infinity of viewpoints, and many (most?) of them will be wrong.
- “Lebanon, Iran and the Palestinians can defend themselves” is not wrong.
- “Lebanon and Iran are currently defending themselves” is wrong.
Lebanon isn’t even included in this, Hezbollah is not Lebanon. Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
Palestinians are a much more complicated situation, because the settler land theft is agression from Israel and should have stopped decades ago. But the current Palestinian leaders (both Hamas and Fatah) don’t actually care to solve that. They would rather have their citizens continue to die so they can continue getting richer. Which is why they encourage deadly attacks on civilian which will keep Netanyahu and his ilk in power, because Israelis like all humans tend to respond to violence with violence.
These are human beings sick of imperialist aggression.
Bullshit. How can you be so blind? Iran is led by right-wing theocrats leaders, they would be imperialist themselves if they could afford to. Actually they are, since they supported Syria when it fucking invaded Lebanon for 30 years. And then left Hezbollah to continue controlling the place, where it has more influence than the actual Lebanese governement, which is supposed to represent the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah does not act in the interest of the Lebanese people, they are murderous thugs that obey their masters in Tehran. If they truly wanted to help Lebanese people, they would not be shooting at Israel. There are so many things in terrible shape in Lebanon they could be fixing, but no, they are a large part of the problem because they want control over making things better.
Iran is attacking Israel. They could stop doing that anytime and have Israel leave them alone. That includes giving up on their uranium enrichment.
This is the ingrained propaganda that is clouding your understanding. Iran always complied (reasonably) with the NPT and seeks peaceful use of nuclear power. Just as Iraq didn’t have WMDs. These lies are framing their resistance and defense against imperialist aggression as aggression on their side.
Obviously Iran isn’t as nice and democratic, post racist and secular as the USA (/s) but they do have the right to defend themselves. Hezbollah is their tool. The US and Israel has theirs.
I see you aren’t engaging most of my comment. That’s fine, hopefully it made you think at least.
peaceful use
You can’t claim things like “Israel must be wiped off the map” (Iranian source before you continue with the propaganda accusations) and pretend you are enriching uranium over the needed amount for civilian use for peaceful purposes.
Iraq and WMDs
No argument here, that’s just America doing American things. I’d have Bush and his whole admin at the Hague if it was up to me. Not that Saddam deserved better, but the Iraqi did.
Last paragraph.
And you’re right, Iran has a right to defend themselves. But they aren’t defending themselves in this situation. You don’t defend yourself by having a proxy invade then another take control of a country so you can have it lob missiles at a third one without endangering yourself.
Does Lebanon and Iran and Palestinians have a right to defend themselves?
“Defend” themselves against Israel daring to exist?
Right, Israel just needs a bit more lebensraum in the east / the west bank.
Why are you changing the topic? Yes, Israel using the situation to expand into palestinian territory is also despicable. But that doesn’t magically make military, militia or terrorist attacks against Israel an act of defense.
If you want to condemn Israel’s actions then the bare minimal requirement is not being even worse. At which countries openly supporting terrorists and calling for the destruction of a neighbouring country fail by definition.
