Sure, more Palestinians will die
Sure, Ukrainians will die
Sure, US minorities will die
Sure, the entire world will suffer from a fascist demagogue at the head of the most powerful country in the world
But have you considered that, for a few brief moments of time,
we created a lot of value for the shareholderswe got to feel smug over the SHITLIBS who wanted to prevent fascism?It’s honestly such a shockingly privileged position it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense unless they are operating in bad faith. Yes, there are several serious problems in the world, and absolutely none of them are solved by helping the US slip into fascism. Leftists in particular are supposed to hate fascists, so I can’t imagine how anyone with leftist sympathies could possibly want to see what the world looks like with an unrestrained Trunp at the helm. Again, unless they are so privileged they don’t think the consequences would affect them personally, in which case I would call any other profession of external empathy which they might bleet ad nauseum, as questionably sincere.
They don’t think the consequences will touch them. They’re the leftist equivalent of “shitlibs”
Ahh, but you see, you disagreed with Stalin that one time, and therefore you were the fascist all along
As I believe in the abolition of capitalism and the creation of a popular base of support for such a measure, instead of a narrow oligarchy oppressing the proletariat and enforcing its will on society, I am a shitlib. It’s a terrible burden to bear. 😔
Communism sucks! We should have a classless, moneyless, stateless society where goods are distributed from each according to ability to each according to need instead! And according to Hexbear users, such a model is called liberal capitalism.
Correct, my harm reduction framework is much more violent than your harm reduction framework, and is therefore more interesting, which makes you wrong.
And hardly takes that. All you have to do is have a subtle difference of opinion, and BAM! You’re a fascist.
My favorite, however, is that when you point out that their arguments are 100% logical fallacies, you get banned from multiple communities at once.
Did you know if you support Harris, you’re also a transphobe?
Just admit it!
Something something chronically online lmfao touch grass bougie.
But what else am I gonna do with my feelings of impotent rage? Try to actually change something?
This was a great comment until you implied only conservatives are deciding not to vote for Harris due to our support of Israel.
I was making fun of that short-sighted self-serving nature by making a comparison to capitalist conservatives, not asserting that champagne socialists are, themselves, capitalist conservatives (though, functionally, their actions serve the same goals).
Short-sighted self-serving is what happens when people promote a lesser evil out for fear of a greater one.
They are not willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of an end to our complicity in genocide. More concerned with their current sense of safety in the heart of the Empire than the violence employed to maintain it. Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
But hey, at least we can all look forward to doing this again when Trump runs in 2028, right? Democrats surely won’t triangulate even further to the right in pursuit of the mythical moderate Republican voter, right?
Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
God, accelerationism is so fucking dumb.
If we just let the fascists win then we’ll be able to usher in a socialist paradise! What’s unclear about that to you? Read a book! /s
I hate and love how this is pretty much exactly accelerationism explained without the childlike naiveté.
As opposed to what, doing the same thing every election in the hopes that it will somehow turn out differently this time?
Every time the Dems look left they lose. They go to the center because they lose control (they need all 3 houses to do anything), so they go to the center to find voters. They’ve had control of all 3 houses for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Want them to stop going to the center? Them give them victories.
I wish more people could understand this. Or even made an effort to.
As opposed to trying to make things better and avoid more suffering for everyone.
Accelerationists have never lived through what they claim to want because if they did, and lived, they would no longer be accelerationists.
Doing the same thing you’ve always done isn’t “trying to make things better”, it’s “trying to make things stay the same”.
If you want to avoid suffering, you have to be against genocide.
Accelerationists won’t have to live with the consequences because they don’t originate in the US.
Check your privilege
You’re kidding, right?
If you weren’t paying attention, I’m a transgender furry. I’ve been personally targeted by Nazis long before Trump declared people like me to be enemies of America.
Do you think I am not painfully aware of what is at stake here?
I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
I love the idealism, I lost mine decades ago.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
democrats : This is the most important election in our lifetime, we need you to vote to save democracy.
Third party voters : Yeah and under a Democracy I intend To freely use my vote according to my beliefs and interests.
democrats: Nooooooy, not like that 🤬
America doesn’t actually have a democracy. You only get a remotely democratic choice between D and R. And even that choice is severely compromised. If you think you have the democratic choice to vote third party, then you’ve been brainwashed by pro-america propaganda
Join the movement for ranked choice voting so we can end the duopoly!
Missourians who see this, vote NO on 7 to stop the ban!
America is an oligarchy.
Russians: first we try to spread chaos by pretending to be 3rd party American voters unhappy with Israel.
Americans: dude that plan is absolutely retarded and there’s no way it would ever work.
Russians: but we paid for the best 3rd party candidate rubles could buy!
Jill Stein:
Americans:
It’s almost like the current and immediate conflict between Israel and Palestinians isn’t the singular thing that the world should have serious concern about, and that realistic solutions to longstanding international diplomacy issues are - wait for it - hard.
Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list. If it isn’t for you, maybe you should reflect on that a little
Ongoing genocide isn’t at the top of drag’s priority list. The top of drag’s list is the imminent omnicide due to climate change. Drag thinks omnicide is a bigger deal than genocide.
Some people think an administration and a party that out right lies about a genocide happening care about them. If someone in a position of power, not only ignore but also support clear evidence of genocide and keep repeating statement that means nothing, they are either agent for a foreign country “AIPAC” or they are in it for themselves and have zero care for poor people.
Don’t forget CUFI, it’s actually bigger and more powerful than AIPAC but doesn’t get as much attention. Christian Zionists are insane psychopaths hell bent on destroying the world (literally)
- North Korea
- Myanmar
- Bangladesh and India
- China
- Hamas and Israel
- Ethiopia
- Democratic Republic of Congo
Or is it only what Israel is doing, and only your concern because you can use it as propaganda to tweak the 2024 presidential election in the US?
Who is North Korea even meant to be genociding?
I’m gonna venture a guess that the US could more easily stop Israel’s genocide than any of the others on the list. Like your source’s recommendation for how to address whatever’s allegedly happening in North Korea is to go in and overthrow the government, like we did in Iraq. Seems just a little bit harder than making arms shipments conditional.
The one that is made possible by my tax dollars
So definitely China, then, because it’s super impossible for you to avoid products made there and exported to the US.
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
And fuck those people being genocided where your tax dollars aren’t going, amirite?
Isn’t that what you’re saying? Except for all of them including Palestinians?
Ongoing genocide is at the top of my “what I’m concerned about” list.
I’ll ask again: Which one(s)?
The one my government is aiding and defending regularly
But hard things are hard and involve complexity and nuance! I’d much rather call people racist, spout a simplistic solution and call it a day.
You forgot to smugly pat yourself on the back!
Nuh uh!
I got into this argument the other day. People’s arrogance and lack of common sense was disappointing.
Yeah tell ne qbout it thinking not voting for either one somehow helps trump 😂 same people that failed basic arithmetic clearly. What they really msan to say is that people voting third party are not helping harris…and yeah thats the point and entirely not the same thing.
49k votes for Stein in Pennsylvania, Trump won by 47k
32k votes for Stein in Wisconsin, Trump won by 22k
51k votes for Stein in Michigan, Trump won by 10k.
Third party voters are useful idiots.
Removed by mod
I am not reading that.
Sorry i shouldn’t have made it so advanced. Ill try to come up with a simpler example in the future!
But maybe sit out of the political bitch fest if you can’t handle how basic arithmetic works eh?
If harris or the dnc want votes, then promote and deliver on policies that people want. If you cant well thats a them problem.
Copy pasting the same smug wall of text every time is not the political own you think it is. In fact, it makes people not want to read it.
Maybe you should get off of the internet and enjoy the nature outside. It’s good for people, y’know?
Try taking your own advice. A bit of time away from a screen should help with these feeling that everyone who fails to vote for Harris is a Trump suppprter.
shrug maybe people should get a clue on what third party votes mean and stop posting the same tired, wrong, and pointless ‘theyre helping Y’ nonsense and ill stop treating them all like children.
If by “third party” you mean Jill Stein, well…
😂 those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Funny that harris has one supporting her too.
Did you even read this article? This is what Liz Cheney actually said:
“Reactionaries make statements. Conscientious and thoughtful people take action because they know moral statements will never change the world.”
If you’re interpreting that statement as indicating support for Apartheid, then you clearly have problems with reading comprehension.
In any case, there’s a big difference between Liz Cheney’s bad opinion in 1987, and the guy who founded the “Knights of the Ku Klux Klan” in Louisiana. There’s quite a gap in scale there.
Your “stone” seems to be more of a bouncy ball.
Dick Cheney is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Incredible that liberals will defend the Cheneys, not sure if it’s that you don’t care about people’s lives if they happened to be born in another country, or if you’re just willing to defend anyone and anything if you think it’ll help you win.
How did Stein’s response to David Duke’s endorsement compare to Harris’ response to Cheney’s? Did she accept the endorsement?
Is this a bot account or something? Every post has obvious typing mistakes and they all say utter bullshit. When shortly scrolling through their comments I didn’t see a single upvote.
Every comment is on the usa election. Account created 2 weeka ago.
That’s good enough for me. Blocked.
and yes, everyone comment is on the election because thats all I particularly care about atm ;) please support rank choice in your state so this nonsense can stop. I’m tired of watching my country kill people for no good fucking reason. I’m tired of watching people shit on 3rd party voters for having a moral conscience that is clearly superior to the majority of liberals.
I am sorry every argument against 3rd party voters is so easily torn apart by simple addition demonstrating that its harmless. if more people had a spine maybe harris wouldn’t be supporting a genocide. but then again maybe she would. either way hard pass.
beep boop.
Oh the irony here.
If there are only two viable options, not helping one is the same as helping the other.
Removed by mod
If there’s a toddler about to walk into traffic and you choose to keep swiping on tinder or whatever instead of helping the kid, that kid’s death is still on you.
Samw thing with not stopping trump.
It’s really not complicated.
Removed by mod
Hey kiddo, instead of deflecting to Palestine, how about you explain how either this voting instance is different than the analogy I’ve given or admit that you’d be fine letting the kid die because of whatever.
If you’re going to be incorrectly smug about voting third party, try answering a reasonable question about it.
What’s trumps excuse? What’s your excuse? What’s God’s excuse?
I’m tired of all this. I take full responsibility. If I had done more this tragedy could have been averted. I’m sorry to those who have suffered because of my inadequacy. Render what ever judgment you will on me and in the future, if there is one for scum like me, I will try to do better.
What’s trumps excuse?
who cares? he never had a chance at my vote to begin with for a large number of reasons. we can just add it to the pile of shitty things trump is okay doing. but we already knew he was willing to commit genocide. this is a surprise to no one who as paid attention.
What’s God’s excuse?
dunno if i could find him i’d ask him.
What’s your excuse?
for what? not supporting harris? I’ve been very clear on this: genocide.
I’m tired of all this.
so am I friend, so am I. I’m not the one running around trying to convince people to vote for a particular candidate by shaming others using intellectually dishonest claims of ‘helping trump’, ‘both parties were going genocide, pick the lesser evil’, etc.
I want people to get off their ass and vote. I didnt vote for harris or trump, I voted down ballot. I’m also not in a swing state or a state with shitty womens rights. harris is going to win my state regardless. That being said the liberals running around spouting nonsense about helping trump when its clearly and demonstrably not true is going to lead to people not voting at all.
And that my friend is why I call this shit out. because they might have voted down ticket regardless which can only help the situation. and quite frankly im happy to treat people with the same level of vitriol that they treat others. Now I will continue campaigning against genocide and getting ranked choice done, please volunteer so people can stop being asses to each other.
Gotta love people trying to use maþ to defend someþing ð actual maþ clearly says is ð complete fucking opposite of helpful.
If you þink ð solution to democratic softness on Israeli atrocities is to let Trump back into power after he handed ðem East Jerusalem, West Bank, and Golan Heights on a silver platter, you are eiðer a covert zionist agent or an unwitting zionist agent.
Eiðer way, my Amrikani-Falasteeni derriere will consider you as much of an ally as truck flags McGee barely holding back from calling me a towel head and sand n****r mostly because we some ð fuck how have been blessed to avoid peak emboldenment, despite your best efforts trying to “make ð establishment learn ðeir lesson.”
You can tell ðese kids are white because ðey actually believe pulling a karen on ð two party system will get ðem a sit down meeting with democracy’s manager for a socialism coupon or some shit.
You went through all the trouble of using eth everywhere, but you left out the accent in derrière?
https://lemmy.ml/post/21672888
3rd party voting hurts trump more than kamala.
3rd party voting is a good thing
😅😆🤣😂😄🤣🫠
You’re actually serious with that borsht Gregor?
I think someone has been drinking too much vodka.
Y’all tried with Kennedy and the brain rot got him from fucking that bear 🐻 or whatever. Now it’s Stein which is so absolutely absurd of a candidate to put up against anyone.
Jill Stein is so bland she couldn’t win against a cardboard cutout of herself. She has zero appeal, zero prowess, zero accolades, zero achievements.
If that’s the best Russian intelligence can do, the Putin régimes’ days are numbered.
🤣🤣
3rd party voting hurts trump more than kamala.
And if the third party leftist voters voted for Harris and voted in Democratic primaries, we might not be in this mess.
Democrats have primaries?
Oh you sweet summer child.
Polls are bullshit, quit relying on them.
You’re right, the polls that show Jill Stein having no chance in this election are bullshit. She does have a chance, I’m voting for her
She didn’t win a single EC vote in 2012, or in 2016, let alone anywhere close to the 270 needed. This election isn’t going to be any different.
Classic tactic of accusing your opponent of what you’re doing.
What on Earth are you trying to say?
“Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” is exactly your stance with Palestinians.
By arguing against the candidate who has told Israel to do whatever it wants and accused Dems of not supporting Israel hard enough?
That is an, uhhhh, interesting take.
By supporting someone who has their blood on their hands and is fully supportive of the ongoing genocide. Pretty cold take, actually.
And the alternative is more dead Palestineans.
Believe it or not, the world is not as you wish it to be, it just is. And it’s for us to do as best we can for others given the real world constraints.
As there are two options and one is worse for Palestineans, I support the one that is better for them.
It’s not super complicated.
You have to support 99% Hitler who wants to hand out cookies before committing mass slaughter because if you don’t you’re supporting 100% Hitler and no cookies, which would make one a monster.
There are actually more options beyond those, if people would take them. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy to say that other options aren’t viable. It’s better to try to fight against that than to be complicit in supporting it. If it’s impossible, then it would be better to boycott the system altogether. Under no circumstances is supporting genocide morally justified.
“
somehundreds of thousands of youmaywill die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” is exactly what vote blue no matter who people are saying to arab americans who are uncomitted votersLook dumbass, those people are dying either way. Trump has the same pro isreal stance. So why not protect those we can?
More will die under Trump than Harris.
Anyone who is against Israel’s genocide is not voting for Trump.
What’s your point?
And if Trump is elected, ALL of them will die if he gets his way and he admitted as much.
It’s too late in the game to bother educating you on this, but it’s never too late to call out your bullshit.
I will say- it’s very telling how the closer we get to the election, the more .ml accounts are showing up to “nuh-uhhhh! everything any everyone that disagrees with them. Even when proof is provided.
You guys must have recently received your marching orders and are working overtime to accomplish your goal!
Можешь заменить меня? Я иду за едой
Dude. Trump is already complaining that we are supporting Israel enough. You think he’s magically going to change his mind and pull the plug on supporting them once he’s in office? Fuckin delulu
Selfish and dumb people may as well just be (involuntary) Russian puppets.
Removed by mod
The amount of people who rationalize arming a genocide is “ok” if a black lady does it, is more than alarming to me.
Literally no one is saying this.
Removed by mod
She is also the acting VP and can’t really dissociate herself from the current position. She has also talked much more about ending the conflict, about Israel crossing lines and has signalled as hard as ahe can that things would be different, e.g., snubbing Bibi and not meeting him when he came to America (which drove conservatives apoplectic.)
The reality is she is going to continue arming Israel until Israel illegally settles all of Gaza. You cannot tell me that her 60 minutes response inspired any amount of confidence on a ceasefire. She totally ignored all of the reports about US arms being used on refugee camps and jumped straight to a single attack against a retaliatory strike towards Israel and reiterated her belief that the US is inextricably linked to Israel. She reiterated the nonsense that Israel has a right to defend itself against the peoples they have oppressed, subjugated, and genocided.
And trump has encouraged Israel to accelerate their efforts.
No one rational is accepting or attracted to harris’stance on Israel. We’re attracted to the idea that it will be worse under trump, with a massive dose of acceleration, bald faced racism including the likely mass deportation of Muslim refugees, and global chaos due to his being 1. Incompetent and insecure 2. A likely unwitting agent of global enemies like Putin.
After all Gaza concepts are discussed and balanced, trump will also materially endanger minority and at risk groups in the US due to blatant policy, stochastic terrorism emitted from the oval office itself, and the appointment of corrupt conservative federal judges that will hold back progressive progress for decades to come. Again, this is important, but not more important than people dying in Gaza. But an American voter should certainly care about America TOO.
For these reasons a vote for Harris is effective but unsavory harm reduction, as at least during a Harris presidency advocacy and progress is even remotely possible, or even legal. Trump has made clear his interest in punishing those who are not aligned with his world, and that’s nearly everyone on the planet.
The reality is she is going to continue arming Israel until Israel illegally settles all of Gaza.
Oh awesome I was looking for one of you people. So - who’s gonna win the World Series? I really need this, my bookie’s already told me he’s gonna cut me off and I don’t like the sound of that!
Trump is Netanyahu’s favorite candidate. The disrespect to Biden/Blinken ceasefire/restraint timidness is done to make Dems look bad. Blinken is a worthless POS who may not have any serious intent to stop genocide. Both Harris and Bernie, by repeating Israel’s right to defend itself, are essentially ok with all Israeli evil, and the unlimited unconditional free weapon support, despite some occasional reserved statements to the contrary. Trump will just use unconditional support for a war on Iran as a means to ethnically cleanse Muslims from the USA.
The “everyone is a Russian Troll” is worse than dead internet theory. Trump is more progressive on not diminishing Russia through Ukraine proxy war. Whether or not he is paid by Russia, ordinary Americans who think diminishing Russia enriches them are victims of disinformation and emotional media manipulation that makes them think support for diminishing Russia/Putin means they care more about Russian prosperity than Russian leadership, and keeping Ukraine nazified on a path to NATO is somehow “liberal”. US empire has never before reached this level of evil and recklessness. The popular normalization of this evil is a certain contributor to US decline and imminent collapse.
Actual Russian operatives from foreign ministry would see Iran as an ally, though the massive forced Russian military production increase from Ukraine proxy war on it, means massive opportunity to assist Iran in a conflict if Ukraine gets resolved. It also means ultra high oil prices/profits. A war on Iran would still be US empire emboldened. All elected political leaders in November will take loyalty oaths to Israel, and there is no indication that Harris would stop such a war, or not involve US troops. It is just more certain that Trump would.
Lol, “keeping Ukraine nazified”
How much of this was a copypasta from something vaguely related?
It’s very scattershot.
A likely end to the war will be Russia keeps the liberated territory, and Ukraine agrees to stay neutral. Ukraine and US will claim victory by not denazifying its rulership. (the only other Russian condition for war starting and continuing)
Lolol.
So, are you paid by the post or the word?
Not to give y’all tips but who in their right mind believes this nazified leadership bullshit?
For a one day old account, it’s very . . . directed.
Ukraine has a lower percentage of Nazis than most countries, including russia, which has one of the higher percentages
